Re: Squeak evolution 1998 - 2008

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

This is a great resource, Bob!  Thanks!

I'm wondering how well your infrastructure would work for older change sets, say of the KSC, ParcPlace ST-80 era?

Thar's gold in dem der files!

Regards,
Sam


Sam S. Adams, CTO - Contextual Computing
IBM Distinguished Engineer, IBM Research
Mobile: 919-696-6064, email: [hidden email]
Assistant: Linda R. Morrison. (720) 395-0460 Fax: (845) 491-4318, Tie: 676-0460, [hidden email]
<<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, 1 Corinthians 1:10>>

Bob Arning ---10/26/2013 09:54:23 AM---Well, it contains all that I have found. There are some gaps in the  numbering, so I don't know if I

From: Bob Arning <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 10/26/2013 09:54 AM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak evolution 1998 - 2008
Sent by: [hidden email]

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob



Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

This is a great resource, Bob!  Thanks!

I'm wondering how well your infrastructure would work for older change sets, say of the KSC, ParcPlace ST-80 era?

Thar's gold in dem der files!

Regards,
Sam


Sam S. Adams, CTO - Contextual Computing
IBM Distinguished Engineer, IBM Research
Mobile: 919-696-6064, email: [hidden email]
Assistant: Linda R. Morrison. (720) 395-0460 Fax: (845) 491-4318, Tie: 676-0460, [hidden email]
<<Hebrews 11:6, Proverbs 3:5-6, Romans 1:16-17, 1 Corinthians 1:10>>

Bob Arning ---10/26/2013 09:54:23 AM---Well, it contains all that I have found. There are some gaps in the  numbering, so I don't know if I

From: Bob Arning [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Date: 10/26/2013 09:54 AM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak evolution 1998 - 2008
Sent by: [hidden email]

---

Well, it contains all that I have found. There are some gaps in the numbering, so I don't know if I missed some or that gap appeared in the original stream. And, yes, there was a switch to change sets simply loading some Monticello file(s), although there was not a crisp changeover.

I'll give some thought to a graphical version.

Cheers,
Bob


On 10/26/13 8:42 AM, H. Hirzel wrote:

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob



Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

Interesting view, Bob.

Clearly visible is when the idea of testing started to get track, when
Monticello and Etoys arrived.

Morphic seems to be there right from the start. Is that so?

--Hannes

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

OK, first iteration of the graphical view is at

http://69.251.218.6:9116/time

each column represents 200 change sets. The numbers in each cell are
number of chunks and number of bytes.

I'll clean this up a bit later.

Cheers,
Bob

On 10/26/13 8:42 AM, H. Hirzel wrote:

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

Morphic appeared in Squeak 1.19. You can download Squeak 1.18 from ftp.squeak.org.  It was the last MVC only release of Squeak. It runs well in my Windows netbook, with an appropriate VM. I'm using Andreas' 1.31.1.4 VM from 1998.

Cheers,

Juan Vuletich

Quoting Bob Arning <[hidden email]>:

Morphic right from the start? As far as these change set go Morphic is there, but they represent additions to Squeak 1.31. Not sure about earlier versions. So the question is

Was there ever a version of Squeak without Morphic? Jecel, you know?

Cheers,
Bob

On 10/26/13 3:04 PM, H. Hirzel wrote:

Interesting view, Bob.

Clearly visible is when the idea of testing started to get track, when
Monticello and Etoys arrived.

Morphic seems to be there right from the start. Is that so?

--Hannes

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

OK, first iteration of the graphical view is at

http://69.251.218.6:9116/time

each column represents 200 change sets. The numbers in each cell are
number of chunks and number of bytes.

I'll clean this up a bit later.

Cheers,
Bob

On 10/26/13 8:42 AM, H. Hirzel wrote:

On 10/26/13, Bob Arning [hidden email] wrote:

http://69.251.218.6:9116/ can give you a pretty good picture of the
evolution in this area.

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

does it contain _all_ the change sets from 1998 - 2008? It seems that
in 2008 the update mechanism was changed to Monticello files, right?


Did you think it would be possible of running an  from 0001 to 7179,
so to say "replaying the evolution"?

It would be nice to have a graphical display of which areas have been
touched and which ones not. Possibly in the form of a movie.... (e.g.
a rectangle representing a class category sized according to code size
with colors indicating changes, animated gif?)

--Hannes



0001tk_test.doit
"Just a test if the update broadcasting is working"
Transcript show: ' You got an external update'; cr.

0002tk_collapse_RF.cs
'From Squeak 1.31 of Feb 4, 1998 on 8 May 1998 at 4:31:32 pm'

.........


7179AdvanceTo3dot10dot2.cs
>From Squeak3.10.2beta of 5 June 2008 [latest update: #7175] on 5 June
2008 at 2:53:19 pm'

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

Bob Arning wrote:

Morphic right from the start? As far as these change set go Morphic is
there, but they represent additions to Squeak 1.31. Not sure about
earlier versions. So the question is

Was there ever a version of Squeak without Morphic? Jecel, you know?

Juan has already replied that Morphic was added to 1.19 (the versions I
remember before that were 1.13, 1.16, 1.17 and 1.18). Note that even
1.31 started up in a MVC project and you had to open a new Morphic one
to play around with that. This was inverted in 2.0, I think.

One issue is that 1998 is not "the start" at all. You might think that
not much is missing when you lack under two years, but it is important
to remember that the rate of development of the Squeak project was
amazing in the beginning compared to what we are now used to. That is
actually common for a low of projects. So one version doesn't have
networking at all, and then next you have a web browser that tries to
play Flash pages.

In terms of lines of code, on the other hand, the rate of development
got faster as time went on rather than slower. This isn't so obvious if
you do some statistics on the various images because there were several
times when a lot of code was removed from the official images. So if you
look at one image and it has 40% more classes/methods/lines of code than
an older one but the older one can sing "Silent Night" and the new one
can't, then the number is smaller than it should be.

Sam Adam asked about extending this back in time (I guess it would have
to be through Apple Smalltalk-80 and then back through Xerox Smalltalks)
and I mentioned a two year gap. It might be a neat idea to convert the
earlier changes into the same format (a lot of the needed information
can be found in the archives for this mailing list) and number them -1,
-2, etc...

-- Jecel

OK, the

http://69.251.218.6:9116/time

has been updated with the pre-update stream stuff.

I'm having a little confusion here - I dont' seem to have where SameGame entered the image. Anybody know?

Cheers,
Bob

I'm having a little confusion here - I dont' seem to have where SameGame entered the image. Anybody know?