Re: Wisconsin library usage

In the "KAT demo" there is a conventional menu bar across the top.
Select New -> Desktop...  You are then prompted in a dialog box for
"URL to import:".  The default is google. Press the "OK" button.

This is all wired to connect you to sandboxed VNC server at
croquetcollaborative.org , with nothing in the session except Firefox
already connected to the URL you specified. Obviously, this isn't
going to scale worldwide. It's just a start.  You can use View ->
Remote Desktop Configuration to get an administrative menu (in
Morphic) by which you can specify a different server, but it still
has to be a special "XRFB" server that I've described previously.

If you just want to just talk to your own VNC server directly
(without using the special sandboxing/browser-building), you can use
Admin -> New raw RFB. You will be prompted for server address, port,
and password in three separate prompts. (Note that password is
visible to programmers who are in the same Croquet world.)   One
requirement is that on the host, you need to start the vcnserver -
depth 24.

On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Kiran wrote:

> Hi
> Using wisconsin libraries, how do you access google through firefox.
> How do i enable RFB framework to access a webpage thru RFB and
> Firefox.
>
> Thanks
> Kiran

On Feb 2, 2007, at 10:30 PM, Kiran wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback.
> I am trying to run it locally.
> So what i did is :
>
> 1. Ran RFB Server using world menu item.
> 2. Ran KAT demo
> 3. Configured desktop configurations 16.138.1.174(local-ip)/
> 127.0.0.1 and default port  as 5899.
>   ( I got to know that RFB server eventhough ran is not listed when
> asked for listing desktop..saying XRFB server is not runnning..)

But an RFBServer is NOT an Xrfb server. I'm sorry that I haven't
explained this better.  Maybe you can create some documentation?

Anyway, the short summary is the paragraph you quoted, below, that
begins "This is all wired..."

More info on the special sandboxed Xrfb server is in:
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.croquet.devel/1958
   http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.croquet.devel/1977

The raw Xrfb server stuff is at http://atsosxdev.doit.wisc.edu/
croquet/Xrfb/
Folks who want to set up such a server themselves can do so, but this
is really a pretty serious IT undertaking, and doesn't really have
anything to do with Croquet itself. You can probably find consultants
for that sort of thing.

> 4. Tried to run Select New -> Desktop...  "URL to import:".  Press
> the "OK" button.

New -> Desktop is not a general VNC interface. It is a desktop
application interface as described above. Hence the name. It does
happen to use RFB under the hood.

If you want to just connect directly to any raw RFB or VNC server,
see the paragraph you quoted, below, that begins, "If you want to
talk to your own..."

You understand, I hope, that connecting to yourself is useless for
any purpose other than exploring the concept.
For example, in the Collaborative image (which happens to contain the
RFBServer in Squeak for no other reason than that it came with the
RFB Monticello package):

  Start a local VNC server in Squeak as follows:
  World menu -> Open -> RFB/VNC server.
  start server
  pick a display number (e.g., default 0).  (Note: default server
password in this image is 'croquet'. Change it if you want.)

  Start a local VNC viewer in Squeak as follows:
  world menu -> Open -> RFB/VNC viewer
  click the little black square on top of the scroll bar on the left.
  select 'connect...'
  enter localhost:0 (or whatever display number you picked)
  password as above
  You've created a hall of mirrors. Kind of silly, no?

  Start a raw RFB viewer to yourself in Croquet:
  Kill the local VNC viewer you just made (click in the upper left x).
  Start the KAT demo.
  Please clear the interactivity server address to connect to just
yourself.  You don't want everyone in the Collaborative connecting to
your little toy VNC server test, and they don't want it either.
   Admin -> New raw RFB
   Enter localhost, the display number, and the password in the next
three dialogs.
   You get a desktop.
       - You won't see your Croquet world recursively, because the
OpenGL stuff isn't picked up by the VNC server.
       - You will see all sorts of other interference between
croquet, morphic, rfb client, and rfb server fighting over the same
events.  Like I said, a loopback like this isn't very useful.

  This raw RFB desktop will work better connecting to a commercial
VNC server on a different machine, but you'll still have a lot of
"IT" crap to deal with: Matching display depth and transmission
formats; password management; shared session management; garbage
collecting sessions; launching the right application; sandboxing/
jails; Xauth silliness; configuring keyclick repeat and such. Yuck.
That's why we built Xrfb, where we could control what's happening on
both sides.  And the experience of trying to coordinate all that crap
is what has made me repeatedly say that I'd rather do everything
collaborative in Croquet, and that I see Xrfb only as a necessary
evil escape valve to connect to legacy stuff.

>
> it comes up with the following message
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.google.com/
>
> ==================================
>
> XrfbHttpReplyException: An error occurred while trying to contact
> the Xrfb Desktop Server.
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Most likely, either the Xrfb server is not running,
>
> it is not reachable due to a firewall,
>
> or the Host, Port, or Password is not configured correctly.
>
> (Use the menu "Tools" >> "Xrfb Desktops Control Panel" >>
> "Configure" )
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> error occured retrieving
>
> http://16.138.1.174:5899/launch ?
> id=1ddbe9b492cc3c22059eddfaa3a0d882&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%
> 2F : Server 16.138.1.174 is not responding
> p://16.138.1.174:5899/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Appreciate you reply...
>
> Regards
> Kiran
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/2/07, Howard Stearns <[hidden email]> wrote: In the "KAT
> demo" there is a conventional menu bar across the top.
> Select New -> Desktop...  You are then prompted in a dialog box for
> "URL to import:".  The default is google. Press the "OK" button.
>
> This is all wired to connect you to sandboxed VNC server at
> croquetcollaborative.org , with nothing in the session except Firefox
> already connected to the URL you specified. Obviously, this isn't
> going to scale worldwide. It's just a start.  You can use View ->
> Remote Desktop Configuration to get an administrative menu (in
> Morphic) by which you can specify a different server, but it still
> has to be a special "XRFB" server that I've described previously.
>
> If you just want to just talk to your own VNC server directly
> (without using the special sandboxing/browser-building), you can use
> Admin -> New raw RFB. You will be prompted for server address, port,
> and password in three separate prompts. (Note that password is
> visible to programmers who are in the same Croquet world.)   One
> requirement is that on the host, you need to start the vcnserver -
> depth 24.
>
> On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Kiran wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > Using wisconsin libraries, how do you access google through firefox.
> > How do i enable RFB framework to access a webpage thru RFB and
> > Firefox.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kiran
>
>

Short answer:

* xrfb.croquetcollaborative.org and www.croquetcollaborative.org are
independent.  For 'try it out' purposes, you can host your own world
(independent of the latter) and still use the former for xrfb.  Of
course, you wouldn't do that for production.

* Scalability has a lot of issues, with this just being one of them.
You can serve your own xrfb or something like it. But remember this:
xrfb and vnc in general is a hole in the fabric of Croquet through
which you view legacy stuff. Putting a vnc or remote desktop panel
inside of Croquet does give SOME of the benefits of Croquet to the
legacy application (e.g., context), but it does NOT suddenly make it
more scalable than VNC or remote desktop would be otherwise.(1)  But
nor is it any worse.


-------------
(1) By contrast, making something entirely within Croquet, or at
least entirely within Squeak and exposed as an EmbeddedApp, DOES in
general make it as scalable as Croquet.  The degree to which that
scalability is practical depends on how the rest of the set of
scalability issues apply for the given app.

On Feb 5, 2007, at 12:18 AM, Kiran wrote:

> Thanks so much Howard for the info.
>
> I was able to connect to my local desktop . I observed the

> interferance you mentioned.
>
> But how do i connect to google.com/any webpage as colloborative.org
> is not scalable( i cant connect to it )
> The steps you mentioned earlier for connecting to google.com , is
> possible i assume when you connect to colloborative.org,where the
> special xRFB server is running.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kiran
>
>
> On 2/4/07, Howard Stearns <[hidden email]> wrote: On Feb 2,
> 2007, at 10:30 PM, Kiran wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the feedback.
> > I am trying to run it locally.
> > So what i did is :
> >

> > 1. Ran RFB Server using world menu item.

> > 2. Ran KAT demo
> > 3. Configured desktop configurations 16.138.1.174(local-ip)/
> > 127.0.0.1 and default port  as 5899.
> >   ( I got to know that RFB server eventhough ran is not listed when
> > asked for listing desktop..saying XRFB server is not runnning..)
>
> But an RFBServer is NOT an Xrfb server. I'm sorry that I haven't
> explained this better.  Maybe you can create some documentation?
>
> Anyway, the short summary is the paragraph you quoted, below, that
> begins "This is all wired..."
>
> More info on the special sandboxed Xrfb server is in:
>   http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.croquet.devel/
> 1958
>     http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.croquet.devel/
> 1977
>
> The raw Xrfb server stuff is at http://atsosxdev.doit.wisc.edu/
> croquet/Xrfb/
> Folks who want to set up such a server themselves can do so, but this
> is really a pretty serious IT undertaking, and doesn't really have
> anything to do with Croquet itself. You can probably find consultants
> for that sort of thing.
>
> > 4. Tried to run Select New -> Desktop...  "URL to import:".  Press
> > the "OK" button.
>
> New -> Desktop is not a general VNC interface. It is a desktop
> application interface as described above. Hence the name. It does
> happen to use RFB under the hood.
>
> If you want to just connect directly to any raw RFB or VNC server,
> see the paragraph you quoted, below, that begins, "If you want to
> talk to your own..."
>
> You understand, I hope, that connecting to yourself is useless for
> any purpose other than exploring the concept.
> For example, in the Collaborative image (which happens to contain the
> RFBServer in Squeak for no other reason than that it came with the
> RFB Monticello package):
>
>   Start a local VNC server in Squeak as follows:
>   World menu -> Open -> RFB/VNC server.
>   start server
>   pick a display number (e.g., default 0).  (Note: default server
> password in this image is 'croquet'. Change it if you want.)
>
>   Start a local VNC viewer in Squeak as follows:
>   world menu -> Open -> RFB/VNC viewer
>   click the little black square on top of the scroll bar on the left.
>   select 'connect...'
>   enter localhost:0 (or whatever display number you picked)
>   password as above
>   You've created a hall of mirrors. Kind of silly, no?
>
>   Start a raw RFB viewer to yourself in Croquet:
>   Kill the local VNC viewer you just made (click in the upper left x).
>   Start the KAT demo.
>   Please clear the interactivity server address to connect to just
> yourself.  You don't want everyone in the Collaborative connecting to
> your little toy VNC server test, and they don't want it either.
>    Admin -> New raw RFB
>    Enter localhost, the display number, and the password in the next
> three dialogs.
>    You get a desktop.
>        - You won't see your Croquet world recursively, because the
> OpenGL stuff isn't picked up by the VNC server.
>        - You will see all sorts of other interference between
> croquet, morphic, rfb client, and rfb server fighting over the same
> events.  Like I said, a loopback like this isn't very useful.
>
>   This raw RFB desktop will work better connecting to a commercial
> VNC server on a different machine, but you'll still have a lot of
> "IT" crap to deal with: Matching display depth and transmission
> formats; password management; shared session management; garbage
> collecting sessions; launching the right application; sandboxing/
> jails; Xauth silliness; configuring keyclick repeat and such. Yuck.
> That's why we built Xrfb, where we could control what's happening on
> both sides.  And the experience of trying to coordinate all that crap
> is what has made me repeatedly say that I'd rather do everything
> collaborative in Croquet, and that I see Xrfb only as a necessary
> evil escape valve to connect to legacy stuff.
>
>
>
> >
> > it comes up with the following message

> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.google.com/
> >
> > ==================================
> >
> > XrfbHttpReplyException: An error occurred while trying to contact
> > the Xrfb Desktop Server.
> >

> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> > Most likely, either the Xrfb server is not running,
> >
> > it is not reachable due to a firewall,
> >
> > or the Host, Port, or Password is not configured correctly.
> >
> > (Use the menu "Tools" >> "Xrfb Desktops Control Panel" >>
> > "Configure" )
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > error occured retrieving
> >
> > http://16.138.1.174:5899/launch ?
> > id=1ddbe9b492cc3c22059eddfaa3a0d882&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%
> > 2F : Server 16.138.1.174 is not responding
> > p://16.138.1.174:5899/

> >

> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > Appreciate you reply...
> >
> > Regards
> > Kiran
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/2/07, Howard Stearns < [hidden email]> wrote: In the "KAT
> > demo" there is a conventional menu bar across the top.
> > Select New -> Desktop...  You are then prompted in a dialog box for
> > "URL to import:".  The default is google. Press the "OK" button.
> >
> > This is all wired to connect you to sandboxed VNC server at
> > croquetcollaborative.org , with nothing in the session except
> Firefox
> > already connected to the URL you specified. Obviously, this isn't
> > going to scale worldwide. It's just a start.  You can use View ->
> > Remote Desktop Configuration to get an administrative menu (in
> > Morphic) by which you can specify a different server, but it still
> > has to be a special "XRFB" server that I've described previously.
> >
> > If you just want to just talk to your own VNC server directly
> > (without using the special sandboxing/browser-building), you can use
> > Admin -> New raw RFB. You will be prompted for server address, port,
> > and password in three separate prompts. (Note that password is
> > visible to programmers who are in the same Croquet world.)   One
> > requirement is that on the host, you need to start the vcnserver -
> > depth 24.
> >
> > On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Kiran wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > > Using wisconsin libraries, how do you access google through
> firefox.
> > > How do i enable RFB framework to access a webpage thru RFB and
> > > Firefox.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Kiran
> >
> >
>
>