Re: chanllenges. Juan’s new morphic

Hi Juan,

Juan from your comments in the challenges thread I
understand you have some morphic
enhancements sufficently important to you to work on
for the next few years.

>From what you described they were interesting enough
for my curioaity to want to take a look.

Is there an image around that can be downloaded?

Are you far enough along to have some play with me
stuff inside to help demonstrate the advantages?

Cheers and joy, -- Jerome Peace




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I want to help. What is exactly harvesting?

Hilaire

Peace Jerome a écrit : _______________________________________________
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haversting is:
        you have a look at the fix, enh posted by the people
        and

        - take the latest 3.9 image
        - try to load the code
        - read the code
        - read the tests/write tests if you want to see if the problem
        is there (when possible)
        - provide some comments
        - publish the code in MC
        - reload it in the image
        - publish it in the squeak inbox and notify us
        - give feedback in mantis

sometimes this is easy sometimes not :)

Stef



On 21 mai 06, at 11:04, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:

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Hi Jerome!

It is in a very early stage, and blah blah bla.
You can download it from www.sinectis.com.ar/u/jmvuletich/NewMorphic13.zip .
Then do TestMorph new openInWorld, play a bit with it (move, stretch,
rotate). Then browse the class. The intersting part is that the #drawOn:
method doesn't need to know anything but it's own size: [-1..1] x [1..-1].

(what follows is copied from a recent mail from me):

What follows are some ideas for a redesign of Morphic. Some of them were
suggested by John Maloney (the main implementor of Morphic). Others are old
ideas of mine. I did my first experiments on them in C, way before knowing
about Smalltalk.

- Every Morph defines a space and a coordinate system. His #drawOn: method
and the location of his submorphs are expressed in his own coordinate
system.

- The coordinate systems are 2D but are not restricted to Cartesian. Others
are polar, logarithmic Cartesian, and hyperbolic and map-like projections.
The basic one is Cartesian with Float coordinates.

- There is no concept of pixel. Going from pixels to general coordinate
systems is like going from bits to objects. All the gui is independent of
pixel resolution. All the rendering is antialiased.

- (A coordinate system + its position in an owner + its extent in an owner +
its rotation angle in an owner) together specify a translation of
coordinates
to the owner's space and coordinate system.

- The Morph hierarchy is NOT a shape hierarchy. Morphs don't have a concept
of a border or color. There is no general concept of submorph aligning.

- The existing Morph hierarchy is renamed as OldXxxx. Anyway, most of them
are deleted. Only kernel, a few basic, and the programming tools remain.

- Old Morphs and new Morphs can live together in a World.

Of course, if you (or anyone) is interested enough, you can help!

Cheers,
Juan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peace Jerome" <[hidden email]>
To: "Juan Vuletich" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: chanllenges. Juan's new morphic


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Hi Juan,

Thanks for responding to my request to make the new
morph stuff available.

I've had a channce to play with it. In its present
form it runs out of running room fairly quickly.

That said. The decomposition of morphs into location
and co-ordinate system seems promising.

I tried putting some Testmorphs together. The
behaviour was odd.  Turning a morph with submorphs
left the submorphs stationary relative to the world.
This surprised me.

In the full conception what are the locations relative
to? Their direct owners or the world?

Picking up a morph would move its submorphs but
rotating a morph would not. The brown move handle
worked only for morphs owned by the world. Using them
on submorphs got a debug due to a DNU. The grab handle
worked for moving the submorphs relative to their (now
former) owner.  Dropping the morphs did seem to
reimbed them however.

So at this stage what kind of encouragement/help are
you looking for?

Yours in service, -- Jerome Peace


--- Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>
wrote:


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Hi Jerome!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peace Jerome" <[hidden email]>
To: "Juan Vuletich" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: chanllenges. Juan's new morphic


> Hi Juan,
>
> Thanks for responding to my request to make the new
> morph stuff available.
>
> I've had a channce to play with it. In its present
> form it runs out of running room fairly quickly.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean by "runs out of running
room"?

> That said. The decomposition of morphs into location
> and co-ordinate system seems promising.

Thanks.

> I tried putting some Testmorphs together. The
> behaviour was odd.  Turning a morph with submorphs
> left the submorphs stationary relative to the world.
> This surprised me.

The conversions between coordinates systems of nested morphs is not done
yet. I know it's almost useless as it is. But I hate vaporware. I didn't
want to say "Hey, I'm doing this and that, its cool. But you can't see it."

> In the full conception what are the locations relative
> to? Their direct owners or the world?

The locations are always relative to the direct owner. The idea is that is
you embed a morph in another that has, for example, a cartographic like
coordinate system, the first morph will look as in a real map.

> Picking up a morph would move its submorphs but
> rotating a morph would not. The brown move handle
> worked only for morphs owned by the world. Using them
> on submorphs got a debug due to a DNU. The grab handle
> worked for moving the submorphs relative to their (now
> former) owner.  Dropping the morphs did seem to
> reimbed them however.

I know. The only that you can see on this version is TestMorph>>drawOn: on
it's own coordinate system, without a mechanism for handling rotation (as in
PolygonMorph) or an external transformation (as in general flexed Morphs).

> So at this stage what kind of encouragement/help are
> you looking for?

I know there is not much to look at, but If you'd like to think a bit on the
way to model locations and coordinate systems, and tell discuss about
alternatives, etc., that would be cool. The main idea is that a coordinate
system together with it's location in some container specify a
transformation to/from the container's coordinate system. And I want this to
work with any 2d coordinate systems: Cartesian, Polar, various cartographic,
logarithmic, hyperbolic, etc. I also want to make easy to move, scale or
rotate any morph, that's the reason for the ivars in Locations. But, am I
right on the ideas? Is this a good design?

Soon I'll fix nested morph, and clean the translation to the world
coordinates. Then, I'll implement some sample coordinate systems to play
with. Then is when it will be cool to play with.

Perhaps I should write a bit more about the objectives, so you or anyone can
help with code too.

> Yours in service, -- Jerome Peace

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich

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--- Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>
wrote:
I meant I could not find cool ways to play with it
that didn't run into bugs or unimplemented features.  

  It really help to have the implementation in front of
me. I could answer several questions about locations
by just looking at the code. And I was amazed that the
coordinate system stuff was all handled by #drawon:.
  Great! I thought that was the case from your earlier
description.
 
I like the concepts of the design. And could end the
problems with the transformation morph redering. It is
a good experiment.

I need to think deeper about some design issues before
I comment on them.

>
> Soon I'll fix nested morph, and clean the
> translation to the world
> coordinates. Then, I'll implement some sample
> coordinate systems to play
> with. Then is when it will be cool to play with.

My curiosity will provide an enthusiastic audience.

>
> Perhaps I should write a bit more about the
> objectives, so you or anyone can
> help with code too.

Let me encourage you to do this. My experience has
been that a short clear consice statement (or story)
of goals clarifys thinking and speeds and inspires
implementation. (When I hit a snag in implementation I
go back to the story and the decisions seem to all
flow from that.)

>From the story the implementation seems to write
itself.


>
> > Yours in service, -- Jerome Peace
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich

 
 


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Hi Jerome,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peace Jerome" <[hidden email]>
To: "Juan Vuletich" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: [Morphic] Re: chanllenges. Juan's new morphic


>> I'm sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean by
>> "runs out of running
>> room"?
>>
> I meant I could not find cool ways to play with it
> that didn't run into bugs or unimplemented features.

ok. It will get better with some time...

> It really help to have the implementation in front of
> me. I could answer several questions about locations
> by just looking at the code. And I was amazed that the
> coordinate system stuff was all handled by #drawon:.

Yes, but remember that the implementation is very incomplete and has some
hacks. It doesn't clearly reflects what I want to do. Just don't trust it
too much.

> I like the concepts of the design. And could end the
> problems with the transformation morph redering. It is
> a good experiment.

:)

> I need to think deeper about some design issues before
> I comment on them.

cool.

> My curiosity will provide an enthusiastic audience.

Thanks! This is great.

> Let me encourage you to do this. My experience has
> been that a short clear consice statement (or story)
> of goals clarifys thinking and speeds and inspires
> implementation. (When I hit a snag in implementation I
> go back to the story and the decisions seem to all
> flow from that.)
>
>>From the story the implementation seems to write
> itself.

I fully agree. The only problem is that for sketching ideas I like paper!
I have a lot of pages of ideas and examples. I should write something in
electronic format to help the discussion.

Cheers,
Juan


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Sorry for the mess. Please don't answer to [hidden email] .
Please send me mail to [hidden email] .

Thanks.
Juan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vuletich" <[hidden email]>
To: "Peace Jerome" <[hidden email]>; "Juan Vuletich"
<[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Morphic] Re: chanllenges. Juan's new morphic


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