Re: on having two squeakland websites (Timothy Falconer) (still...)

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Timothy Falconer)
>    2. Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys documentation TOC (Karl Ramberg)
>    3. we have officially overtaken etoys.com in google
>       (Timothy Falconer)
>    4. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Yoshiki Ohshima)
>    5. Re: Etoys documentation TOC (Rita Freudenberg)
>    6. education meeting notes (Rita Freudenberg)
>    7. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Rita Freudenberg)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 06:29:04 -0400
> From: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [squeakland] on having two squeakland websites
> To: Nevit Dilmen <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Nevit Dilmen wrote:
>
>  
>> As an eToys user you can count me as this "few". I strongly agree  
>> with this idea, and believe eToys has been pretty late in this  
>> decision. The websites does not necessarily be hosted on seperate  
>> domains. But all can be handled with subdomains.
>>
>> village.squeakland.org,  projects.squeakland.org,  
>> forum.squeakland.org, wiki.squeakland.org, blogs.squeakland.org, info.squekland.org
>> ,  www.squeakland.org . etc.
>>
>>    
>>> As with all suggestions, I'm open to ideas, but in this
>>> particular case, I'd like some serious community discussion
>>> about this.  I'd like there to be solid, compelling,
>>> reasons for such a move.
>>>      
>>> Here are the reasons I'm against "splitting the baby", as
>>> IMO would happen if we make two sites.  I'll
>>> distinguish as squeakland.org (official) and etoysville.com
>>> (community).
>>>      
>> I will not go in details below, one by one as you suggested. I would  
>> instead compare eToys with Scratch which is a project launched later  
>> than eToys and based on Squeak code.
>>
>> Scratch has been a huge success perhaps because of it's community  
>> website. The community website is not a separate domain as suggested  
>> above but is the main site. It includes areas for official  
>> announcements but the majority of site is composed of project area  
>> with more than 500.000 projects hosted.  The second major part of  
>> the site is forum and both use  unified login. Projects are uploaded  
>> right from within the application. Projects are shared and hosted  
>> with Creative Commons licence which allows recycling and use for  
>> educational purposes.
>>
>> The official areas of the site include blog, downloads,  
>> translations, research, info, credits, quotes, news, store,  
>> donations, conference, scratch day & learning materials.
>>
>> The important question to be answered is does VPRI or sponsors  
>> behind eToys project have enough financial and man power resources  
>> to launch such a major project with huge design, hosting and  
>> maintenance demands? And are they willing to do so.
>>    
>
>
> Nevit,
>
> We *will* be launching a public showcase in the next two weeks, where  
> users can share directly from Etoys.  This is a major feature of the  
> new release.
>
> The debate is about whether these public projects show on a separate  
> website or seperate-looking section.
>
> I'm in favor of the Scratch way (integrated as a major part of the  
> main site).   Others want the look and navigation to be different than  
> the main website, to feel like a separate place than the main website.
>
> I agree that a public showcase has been a long time coming.  Our  
> proposal for last year's website redesign included a Scratch-like  
> public showcase, with features such as curriculum overlays.   This  
> part was cut largely because VPRI didn't feel they had the manpower to  
> moderate a public showcase effectively.
>
> Now that control has been passed to Squeakland Foundation, we're  
> creating this public showcase as one of our first, top, priorities.
>
> Take care,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:47:47 +0200
> From: Karl Ramberg <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [squeakland] Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys documentation TOC
> To: Rita Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
> Cc: etoys dev <[hidden email]>, "squeakland.org mailing
> list" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 2009-09-03 13:01, Rita Freudenberg wrote:
>  
>> Hi all,
>>
>> as you all know we don't really have an Etoys documentation. So let's
>> start writing it. As I wrote earlier I propose to use FLOSS Manuals.
>> It is used by the olpc and sugar community for writing manuals and
>> books. To get started we should have a TOC outline. Here are my
>> suggestions:
>>
>> 1. Introduction (short description what etoys is about)
>> 2. Getting started (technical description on how to install and start
>> etoys on different operating systems)
>> 3. User Interface (painting tools, halo, viewer ...)
>> 4. Tiles (describing every available tile)
>> 5. Objects (everything from the supplies bin and object catalogue, flaps)
>>
>> What am I missing? Of course we can have subchapters and also later
>> add main chapters if we find out we need it. Here is the manual for
>> TurtleArt so you can get the idea what our documentation could look like:
>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/turtleart
>>
>> What do you think? If we come up with a TOC outline I can send it to
>> Anne Gentle from FLOSS manuals to set it up and we can start writing:)
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Rita
>>
>>    
> Oh, and I made the UpdatingScreenshotMorph:
> http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-96
> The nice thing with it is that if you take a UpdatingScreenShot of a
> script for example and add in your BookMorph or text
> you don't have to make a new screenshot if you change the script or
> language because it updates :-)
> So if we keep the documentation internal in Squeak as long as possible
> this could maybe be helpful.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:52:43 -0400
> From: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [squeakland] we have officially overtaken etoys.com in google
> To: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Something surprising and new . . .
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=etoys
>
> We're #1, ahead of etoys.com.  This is a pretty clear indication of  
> word spreading about us.  (Yes etoys.com still sells toys.)
>
> We're still very low in "educational software" and similar searches  
> (Alice is on page 6, Scratch much further down).
>
> Keep linking to us, that's how it works.
>
> Take care,
> Tim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:01:39 -0700
> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [squeakland] on having two squeakland websites
> To: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <uws4fy3vg.wl%[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>   I finally read the thread...
>
>  
>> 8. it's just confusing to have two sites
>>    
>
>   Maybe this is only the real one and other 9 or 8 items are
> concequences of it?
>
>  
>> C) squeakland is built on storymill, which is not "free and open  
>> source" or written in Squeak itself
>>    
>
>   Did anybody say that?  There was "what you write is different from
> what I read" aspect in some conversations, but if you are implying
> what I wrote sometime before, what I wrote was "an openly-available
> platform" so that one developer can control (by that I meant that the
> developer can test and look at both the server (like logs and error
> messages) and client, and not putting anybody on the critical path.
>
>   But, as people agreed, we go with the plan.  So, the question comes
> down to "when" we really work on it and make it work.  Can you tell me
> (or some other developer) when you have quality time so that can work
> together?
>
> -- Yoshiki
>
>  
>> And the last reason, which has not been publicly stated, but I suspect  
>> exists . . .
>>
>> D) some people are frustrated with me personally and want the freedom  
>> to change things without me saying "well, what about so and so"
>>    
>
>   Well, *if* you follow what you wrote below, you probably name "some
> people", so that not leaving everybody in the community wondering
> "hmm, maybe my body language really sucks and I'm giving wrong
> impression on Tim?"
>
>   But no, don't do that.  Instead, you should just try to "read" what
> is written as it is, and not to "interpret" too much.  That is the key
> of text-based technical conversation.
>
> -- Yoshiki
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:13:19 +0200
> From: Rita Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Etoys documentation TOC
> To: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>, etoys
> dev <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Timothy Falconer wrote:
>  
>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:01 AM, Rita Freudenberg wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> as you all know we don't really have an Etoys documentation. So
>>>> let's start writing it. As I wrote earlier I propose to use FLOSS
>>>> Manuals. It is used by the olpc and sugar community for writing
>>>> manuals and books. To get started we should have a TOC outline. Here
>>>> are my suggestions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Introduction (short description what etoys is about)
>>>> 2. Getting started (technical description on how to install and
>>>> start etoys on different operating systems)
>>>> 3. User Interface (painting tools, halo, viewer ...)
>>>> 4. Tiles (describing every available tile)
>>>> 5. Objects (everything from the supplies bin and object catalogue,
>>>> flaps)
>>>>
>>>> What am I missing? Of course we can have subchapters and also later
>>>> add main chapters if we find out we need it. Here is the manual for
>>>> TurtleArt so you can get the idea what our documentation could look
>>>> like:
>>>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/turtleart
>>>>
>>>> What do you think? If we come up with a TOC outline I can send it to
>>>> Anne Gentle from FLOSS manuals to set it up and we can start writing:)
>>>>        
>>> It's a good list.  So this would be more of a reference manual than a
>>> getting started guide?  (with tutorials)
>>>      
> Yes, a reference manual is what I had in mind. I'm sorry for not making
> that clear.
>  
>>> We could link back to the Etoys unit of the courseware for the
>>> gentler intro.
>>>      
>> Also, just want to highlight that we actually do have some
>> documentation (with even a big PDF):
>>
>> http://squeakland.org/tutorials/guides/
>>
>> Kathleen's work is concise and useful, and should be used where
>> possible in the FLOSS version.
>>    
> Definitely, I will not have the same things written again, but collect
> it at one place. And since it is  a reference manual, it will be shorter
> than other materials, but complete. As Bert pointed out "it defines the
> boundary of what we consider officially supported, and what not."
>
> Rita
>  
>> Tim
>>    
>
>
>  

> Hi everyone,
>
> Im afraid it can be a bit too late to talk about this very rich  
> squeakland discussion, but still... :)
> From our work directly with the kids and teachers with Etoys, I  
> think that the most important thing is to have an environment where  
> everyone can create their space: have a profile, public their  
> projects and INTERACT with others. I think that the reason for the  
> sucess of Scratcht website is the interaction the users are able to  
> do (to publish the project they want, to give it a tag, to evaluate  
> it, to do it with others projects too...)! I have been navigating on  
> the website for a while now, and it is quite amazing how the users  
> are talking to each other, eg: "how did you do this game? Where did  
> you get this music from? How to make the animation like this?", etc.
> One of our difficulties deepening the use of Etoys inside the school  
> is: we don't have yet a proper place where the teacher and the kids  
> can actually see what other people are making with Etoys, and to  
> interact with them. There are many kids here with many projects  
> inside their XOs that are still there (and talking with colleagues  
> from Uruguai and around, it is the same thing)!  One important thing  
> is to consider who are (or will be) the users of the website?  I  
> think that an essencial part of the E-toys comunity is the children  
> who are creating projects around the world. If we take that into  
> account, what I would aim is an evironment (inside the Squeakland or  
> not) aimed to easy publication (upload) and download, running the  
> projects online (like the Illinois website, for example) and mainly  
> interaction.
> May be there are worries about having only finished and more  
> elaborated projects published. I think that the users themselves  
> should have the oportunity to regulate what the website is showing  
> (top viewed, top rated, newest projects, etc).
> Like Nevit Dilmen said, may be thats too dificult too maintain, to  
> moderate, etc but thats what I think we should go for...
>
> All the best,
>
> Bruno Sperb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [hidden email] escreveu:
>> Send squeakland mailing list submissions to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of squeakland digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Timothy Falconer)
>>   2. Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys documentation TOC (Karl Ramberg)
>>   3. we have officially overtaken etoys.com in google
>>      (Timothy Falconer)
>>   4. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Yoshiki Ohshima)
>>   5. Re: Etoys documentation TOC (Rita Freudenberg)
>>   6. education meeting notes (Rita Freudenberg)
>>   7. Re: on having two squeakland websites (Rita Freudenberg)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 06:29:04 -0400
>> From: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] on having two squeakland websites
>> To: Nevit Dilmen <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Nevit Dilmen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> As an eToys user you can count me as this "few". I strongly agree  
>>> with this idea, and believe eToys has been pretty late in this  
>>> decision. The websites does not necessarily be hosted on seperate  
>>> domains. But all can be handled with subdomains.
>>>
>>> village.squeakland.org,  projects.squeakland.org,  forum.squeakland.org
>>> , wiki.squeakland.org, blogs.squeakland.org, info.squekland.org ,  www.squeakland.org
>>>  . etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> As with all suggestions, I'm open to ideas, but in this
>>>> particular case, I'd like some serious community discussion
>>>> about this.  I'd like there to be solid, compelling,
>>>> reasons for such a move.
>>>>      Here are the reasons I'm against "splitting the baby", as
>>>> IMO would happen if we make two sites.  I'll
>>>> distinguish as squeakland.org (official) and etoysville.com
>>>> (community).
>>>>
>>> I will not go in details below, one by one as you suggested. I  
>>> would  instead compare eToys with Scratch which is a project  
>>> launched later  than eToys and based on Squeak code.
>>>
>>> Scratch has been a huge success perhaps because of it's community  
>>> website. The community website is not a separate domain as  
>>> suggested  above but is the main site. It includes areas for  
>>> official  announcements but the majority of site is composed of  
>>> project area  with more than 500.000 projects hosted.  The second  
>>> major part of  the site is forum and both use  unified login.  
>>> Projects are uploaded  right from within the application. Projects  
>>> are shared and hosted  with Creative Commons licence which allows  
>>> recycling and use for  educational purposes.
>>>
>>> The official areas of the site include blog, downloads,  
>>> translations, research, info, credits, quotes, news, store,  
>>> donations, conference, scratch day & learning materials.
>>>
>>> The important question to be answered is does VPRI or sponsors  
>>> behind eToys project have enough financial and man power  
>>> resources  to launch such a major project with huge design,  
>>> hosting and  maintenance demands? And are they willing to do so.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nevit,
>>
>> We *will* be launching a public showcase in the next two weeks,  
>> where  users can share directly from Etoys.  This is a major  
>> feature of the  new release.
>>
>> The debate is about whether these public projects show on a  
>> separate  website or seperate-looking section.
>>
>> I'm in favor of the Scratch way (integrated as a major part of the  
>> main site).   Others want the look and navigation to be different  
>> than  the main website, to feel like a separate place than the main  
>> website.
>>
>> I agree that a public showcase has been a long time coming.  Our  
>> proposal for last year's website redesign included a Scratch-like  
>> public showcase, with features such as curriculum overlays.   This  
>> part was cut largely because VPRI didn't feel they had the manpower  
>> to  moderate a public showcase effectively.
>>
>> Now that control has been passed to Squeakland Foundation, we're  
>> creating this public showcase as one of our first, top, priorities.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:47:47 +0200
>> From: Karl Ramberg <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [squeakland] Re: [etoys-dev] Etoys documentation TOC
>> To: Rita Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: etoys dev <[hidden email]>, "squeakland.org mailing
>> list" <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 2009-09-03 13:01, Rita Freudenberg wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> as you all know we don't really have an Etoys documentation. So  
>>> let's start writing it. As I wrote earlier I propose to use FLOSS  
>>> Manuals. It is used by the olpc and sugar community for writing  
>>> manuals and books. To get started we should have a TOC outline.  
>>> Here are my suggestions:
>>>
>>> 1. Introduction (short description what etoys is about)
>>> 2. Getting started (technical description on how to install and  
>>> start etoys on different operating systems)
>>> 3. User Interface (painting tools, halo, viewer ...)
>>> 4. Tiles (describing every available tile)
>>> 5. Objects (everything from the supplies bin and object catalogue,  
>>> flaps)
>>>
>>> What am I missing? Of course we can have subchapters and also  
>>> later add main chapters if we find out we need it. Here is the  
>>> manual for TurtleArt so you can get the idea what our  
>>> documentation could look like:
>>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/turtleart
>>>
>>> What do you think? If we come up with a TOC outline I can send it  
>>> to Anne Gentle from FLOSS manuals to set it up and we can start  
>>> writing:)
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Rita
>>>
>>>
>> Oh, and I made the UpdatingScreenshotMorph:
>> http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-96
>> The nice thing with it is that if you take a UpdatingScreenShot of  
>> a script for example and add in your BookMorph or text
>> you don't have to make a new screenshot if you change the script or  
>> language because it updates :-)
>> So if we keep the documentation internal in Squeak as long as  
>> possible this could maybe be helpful.
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:52:43 -0400
>> From: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [squeakland] we have officially overtaken etoys.com in  
>> google
>> To: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Something surprising and new . . .
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=etoys
>>
>> We're #1, ahead of etoys.com.  This is a pretty clear indication  
>> of  word spreading about us.  (Yes etoys.com still sells toys.)
>>
>> We're still very low in "educational software" and similar  
>> searches  (Alice is on page 6, Scratch much further down).
>>
>> Keep linking to us, that's how it works.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:01:39 -0700
>> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] on having two squeakland websites
>> To: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <uws4fy3vg.wl%[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>>  I finally read the thread...
>>
>>
>>> 8. it's just confusing to have two sites
>>>
>>
>>  Maybe this is only the real one and other 9 or 8 items are
>> concequences of it?
>>
>>
>>> C) squeakland is built on storymill, which is not "free and open  
>>> source" or written in Squeak itself
>>>
>>
>>  Did anybody say that?  There was "what you write is different from
>> what I read" aspect in some conversations, but if you are implying
>> what I wrote sometime before, what I wrote was "an openly-available
>> platform" so that one developer can control (by that I meant that the
>> developer can test and look at both the server (like logs and error
>> messages) and client, and not putting anybody on the critical path.
>>
>>  But, as people agreed, we go with the plan.  So, the question comes
>> down to "when" we really work on it and make it work.  Can you tell  
>> me
>> (or some other developer) when you have quality time so that can work
>> together?
>>
>> -- Yoshiki
>>
>>
>>> And the last reason, which has not been publicly stated, but I  
>>> suspect  exists . . .
>>>
>>> D) some people are frustrated with me personally and want the  
>>> freedom  to change things without me saying "well, what about so  
>>> and so"
>>>
>>
>>  Well, *if* you follow what you wrote below, you probably name "some
>> people", so that not leaving everybody in the community wondering
>> "hmm, maybe my body language really sucks and I'm giving wrong
>> impression on Tim?"
>>
>>  But no, don't do that.  Instead, you should just try to "read" what
>> is written as it is, and not to "interpret" too much.  That is the  
>> key
>> of text-based technical conversation.
>>
>> -- Yoshiki
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:13:19 +0200
>> From: Rita Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Etoys documentation TOC
>> To: Timothy Falconer <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" <[hidden email]>, etoys
>> dev <[hidden email]>
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Timothy Falconer wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 7:01 AM, Rita Freudenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> as you all know we don't really have an Etoys documentation. So  
>>>>> let's start writing it. As I wrote earlier I propose to use  
>>>>> FLOSS Manuals. It is used by the olpc and sugar community for  
>>>>> writing manuals and books. To get started we should have a TOC  
>>>>> outline. Here are my suggestions:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Introduction (short description what etoys is about)
>>>>> 2. Getting started (technical description on how to install and  
>>>>> start etoys on different operating systems)
>>>>> 3. User Interface (painting tools, halo, viewer ...)
>>>>> 4. Tiles (describing every available tile)
>>>>> 5. Objects (everything from the supplies bin and object  
>>>>> catalogue, flaps)
>>>>>
>>>>> What am I missing? Of course we can have subchapters and also  
>>>>> later add main chapters if we find out we need it. Here is the  
>>>>> manual for TurtleArt so you can get the idea what our  
>>>>> documentation could look like:
>>>>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/turtleart
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think? If we come up with a TOC outline I can send  
>>>>> it to Anne Gentle from FLOSS manuals to set it up and we can  
>>>>> start writing:)
>>>>>
>>>> It's a good list.  So this would be more of a reference manual  
>>>> than a getting started guide?  (with tutorials)
>>>>
>> Yes, a reference manual is what I had in mind. I'm sorry for not  
>> making that clear.
>>
>>>> We could link back to the Etoys unit of the courseware for the  
>>>> gentler intro.
>>>>
>>> Also, just want to highlight that we actually do have some  
>>> documentation (with even a big PDF):
>>>
>>> http://squeakland.org/tutorials/guides/
>>>
>>> Kathleen's work is concise and useful, and should be used where  
>>> possible in the FLOSS version.
>>>
>> Definitely, I will not have the same things written again, but  
>> collect it at one place. And since it is  a reference manual, it  
>> will be shorter than other materials, but complete. As Bert pointed  
>> out "it defines the boundary of what we consider officially  
>> supported, and what not."
>>
>> Rita
>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bruno Fagundes Sperb
> cel - 96853758
>
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>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Im afraid it can be a bit too late to talk about this very rich
> squeakland discussion, but still... :)
>  From our work directly with the kids and teachers with Etoys, I think
> that the most important thing is to have an environment where everyone
> can create their space: have a profile, public their projects and
> INTERACT with others. I think that the reason for the sucess of Scratcht
> website is the interaction the users are able to do (to publish the
> project they want, to give it a tag, to evaluate it, to do it with
> others projects too...)! I have been navigating on the website for a
> while now, and it is quite amazing how the users are talking to each
> other, eg: "how did you do this game? Where did you get this music from?
> How to make the animation like this?", etc.
> One of our difficulties deepening the use of Etoys inside the school is:
> we don't have yet a proper place where the teacher and the kids can
> actually see what other people are making with Etoys, and to interact
> with them. There are many kids here with many projects inside their XOs
> that are still there (and talking with colleagues from Uruguai and
> around, it is the same thing)!  One important thing is to consider who
> are (or will be) the users of the website?  I think that an essencial
> part of the E-toys comunity is the children who are creating projects
> around the world. If we take that into account, what I would aim is an
> evironment (inside the Squeakland or not) aimed to easy publication
> (upload) and download, running the projects online (like the Illinois
> website, for example) and mainly interaction.
> May be there are worries about having only finished and more elaborated
> projects published. I think that the users themselves should have the
> oportunity to regulate what the website is showing (top viewed, top
> rated, newest projects, etc).
> Like Nevit Dilmen said, may be thats too dificult too maintain, to
> moderate, etc but thats what I think we should go for...

> At Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:33:47 -0400,
> Timothy Falconer wrote:
>>
>> Bruno,
>>
>> I completely agree, and you'll be seeing all that you mention in less
>> than a week.
>>
>> Stay tuned,
>
>  Yes, but remember that we even said that we would have a release
> before Squeakfest^^; So please don't take the actual date too
> seriously.