Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [etoys-dev] Installing Etoys and Squeak on

> On 04.08.2009, at 21:51, David Corking wrote:
>
> > Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> >
> >> Only if someone can think of a way to reliably detect the problem.
> > ...
> >> (PulseAudio) is what appears to break Squeak sound, because it works
> >> fine on "real ALSA" but breaks on "emulated ALSA".
> >
> > Oh, I had hoped the workaround would be an effective fallback for
> > everyone on Debian derivatives.  I bet the lack of native ALSA is far
> > from trivial to detect in a shell script :(
>
> Yes, but detecting active pulseaudio is simpler. See my comment on
>
> http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-214
>
> >> OSS is obsolete. It's not supported out-of-the-box on most modern  
> >> Linux
> >> distros anymore. If at all, it is provided by an emulation layer like
> >> alsa-oss which adds considerable delay. We would get Squeak talking  
> >> to OSS
> >> talking to emulated ALSA talking to PulseAudio talking to real  
> >> ALSA. No
> >> wonder there is delay in that.
> >
> > I haven't done any testing - is the delay noticeable?
>
> We tried it in SoaS on an Intel Classmate in Mexico today. First using  
> the alsa-oss wrapper which had an awful delay. Then using the padsp  
> wrapper, much better, but still with a slight delay.
>
> > The OSS API
> > (via emulation layers) is not obsolete, and OSS is still the standard
> > on BSD.
>
> You are right - but since in many Linux distros it is not pre-
> installed anymore (not even the emulation wrapper) we cannot rely on  
> it. Likewise, it is not on the OLPC XO (which actually prompted doing  
> the ALSA driver).
>
> > 10 years ago, ALSA was the next big thing.  Now, ALSA is fading away,
> > and OSS and /dev/dsp , with all their flaws, are still here.
>
> ALSA seems to still be the low-level interface of choice. It's just  
> that PulseAudio is trying to virtualize it, breaking some code.
>
> >> Here is an overview of the various Linux sound APIs:
> >>
> >> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html
> >
> > (great guide - thanks -  and the author admits his bias too!  I also
> > enjoyed the linked article:  http://lwn.net/Articles/299211/  and
> > comments)
> >
> > Given that so many distros have already gone to PulseAudio, Lennart
> > makes a pretty convincing case for the Linux VM to move towards a
> > "PulseAudio-safe" subset of the ALSA API.  Thanks for your patience
> > with me.
>
>
> Well, the code is here if you want to try:
>
>