Removing of Universe classes
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On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On 11/21/15, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I suggest we should Universes. >>> +1. +1. +1 and, +1. .. > > I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in > 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in > hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scripts/Universes.st > is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ > state). > > frank > >> I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people >> agreed but at that time it was to late to do it. >> >> --Hannes >> > > Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0. However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot. So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely. |
Removing_of_Universe_classes_in_Squeak5.0_2015-11-25.png (36K) 
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ? I'm not sure how one does this. Best, Karl On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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Thanks, Karl, for this piece of information. I have updated
Package Universes http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3785 accordingly. --HH On 11/25/15, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional. > > To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update > number. > I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ? > > I'm not sure how one does this. > > Best, > Karl > > On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> >> > wrote: >> >> On 11/21/15, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> I suggest we should Universes. >> >> >> >>> +1. +1. +1 and, +1. >> .. >> >> > >> > I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in >> > 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in >> > hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - >> > >> https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scripts/Universes.st >> > is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ >> > state). >> > >> > frank >> > >> >> I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people >> >> agreed but at that time it was to late to do it. >> >> >> >> --Hannes >> >> >> > >> > >> >> Hi Frank >> >> Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0. >> >> However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen >> shot. >> >> So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely. >> >> >> >> > |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
This question comes up from time to time.
There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing. Levente On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, karl ramberg wrote: > Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional. > > To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update number. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ? > > I'm not sure how one does this. > > Best, > Karl > > On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> On 11/21/15, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote: > >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >>>> I suggest we should Universes. > > > >>> +1. +1. +1 and, +1. > .. > > > > > I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in > > 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in > > hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - > > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scripts/Universes.st > > is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ > > state). > > > > frank > > > >> I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people > >> agreed but at that time it was to late to do it. > >> > >> --Hannes > >> > > > > > > Hi Frank > > Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0. > > However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot. > > So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely. > > > > > > |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set. This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work. And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote: > This question comes up from time to time. > There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you > unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the > version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the > global Squeak version number keeps increasing. > > Levente |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a > numbered change set. > > This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work. > > And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. > As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable > change sets and put this change sets in GitHub We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't decrease. It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version vector_. frank > On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> This question comes up from time to time. >> There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you >> unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the >> version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the >> global Squeak version number keeps increasing. >> >> Levente |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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Frank,
what would you propose as the solution then? Just delete all the classes in the Universes package and remove the references to it and keep the empty package? --Hannes On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in >> a >> numbered change set. >> >> This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work. >> >> And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. >> As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable >> change sets and put this change sets in GitHub > > We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the > sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from > the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed > package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't > decrease. > > It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, > but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version > behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's > there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to > record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version > vector_. > > frank > >> On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> This question comes up from time to time. >>> There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you >>> unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the >>> version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the >>> global Squeak version number keeps increasing. >>> >>> Levente > > |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote: This question comes up from time to time. So one just changes the version number in the dialog box when one saves a new version ? As far as unloading the Universes, where do one put the unloading script ? And the unload script is like: (MCPackage named: 'Universes') workingCopy unload Best, Karl
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Re: Removing of Universe classes
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, Frank Shearar wrote:
> On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a >> numbered change set. >> >> This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work. >> >> And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. >> As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable >> change sets and put this change sets in GitHub > > We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the > sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from > the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed > package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't > decrease. > > It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, > but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version > behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's > there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to > record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version > vector_. I don't think there's anything to fix here. The version number is only meaningful in a Trunk image, and it only has to be consistent after updates. So it does exactly what it has to do. Levente > > frank > >> On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> This question comes up from time to time. >>> There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you >>> unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the >>> version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the >>> global Squeak version number keeps increasing. >>> >>> Levente > > |
Re: Removing of Universe classes
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On 25 November 2015 at 16:51, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, Frank Shearar wrote: > >> On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in >>> a >>> numbered change set. >>> >>> This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work. >>> >>> And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. >>> As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable >>> change sets and put this change sets in GitHub >> >> >> We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the >> sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from >> the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed >> package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't >> decrease. >> >> It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, >> but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version >> behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's >> there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to >> record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version >> vector_. > > > I don't think there's anything to fix here. The version number is only > meaningful in a Trunk image, and it only has to be consistent after updates. > So it does exactly what it has to do. Yeah, maybe "fix" is a bit of hyperbole. "Fixing" the Squeak trunk version is like saying "the version of my operating system is Windows 10 + VS 2013.4 + Git 2.6.2 + ...". No one actually does that. The thing called "Cuis" is versioned across the packages in the base system. That's pretty close to what we do, kinda. Maybe in fact "the Squeak trunk version" should only be calculated by the sum of packages in the MCM... but I suspect that's exactly what we _actually do_. So THEN, when we remove packages from the base system (as in, it's not part of the base system anymore), we have the number deficit that Squeak-Version fixes. Er. That might be a long-winded "carry on, nothing to see here." frank > Levente > > >> >> frank >> >>> On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> This question comes up from time to time. >>>> There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you >>>> unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the >>>> version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the >>>> global Squeak version number keeps increasing. >>>> >>>> Levente >> >> >> > |
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In reply to this post by Levente Uzonyi-2
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]> This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing. Levente |
Re: Fwd: Removing of Universe classes
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Hi Chris, but Squeak-Version is itself empty and the version info in ReleaseBuilder would appear to have obsoleted it. Shouldn't we also remove Squeak-Version? _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
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Re: Fwd: Removing of Universe classes
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The ReleaseBuilder does not deal with the build number. We do need that offset in Squeak-Version to compute our build number. Best, Marcel
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Re: Fwd: Removing of Universe classes
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Hi Marcel,
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Re: Fwd: Removing of Universe classes
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On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 08:11 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
+++++++ 1 i think this comment idea is a good idea and i will use it in future if i ever get to because people not in the know would know then but who cares about them but how long would it take to put this Class in but if there was no head scratching or head banging would not people feel that something is missing ? and say TRA-DI-TION and the weight of all the previous nothing pray tell : no-leave the head scratching and banging in or i didn’t know you were going to chide me now i definitely will not do anything you said but i definitely will do this if i ever get to because people not in the know will probably be me in another day or two according to me and that guy who made erLang who made some forlorn plea for just such a mercy on a future he who is destined to head banging by today me who doesn’t see any need to avoid it as he notes that other genius who made that one single comment in all his years of lines of stuff and it was “and now for the tricky part” which leads me to i can’t make head or tail of this TIME TO REWRITE THIS THE WHOLE THING the Whole thing has gone un maintainable in my day we rewrote the whole thing once a day and you can’t just say well here you fix this because you forgot that future me is not in the know and un maintainable here we come when future me gets ahold of this one maybe I’m just forgetful and it’s just me i do not have a forum on my own stuff to remind me at least not one i have access to please please me the kgb or one that is more than half a bit no no no no no no no no no no wait there were yes-es in the before time nothing but yes-es now there is only no and everything is spitted and shut down to go time to scrape down to hell down to the chinese bedrock of swiss cheese that tells just keep on scraping a gaping get a cheese cutter rewrite the whole f thing because the whole f thing has gone to the kells and is spinning in infinity due tell coq did you know that in SE Asia the bank robbers are in the banks and so nobody has a bank account and so nobody has a Visa card and so google is quitting man going to grab their crotch huh imagine that ;-)
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