SS3 canary question

> How could I help?

You have done a great deal already by making Seaside run on Squeak.
There are four images on box2 (i.e. wiki, map, source, and squeak.org).
I'd like to see all four running on the Seaside 3.0.8 you have built.

There are two things you could do that would be of great assistance.

1)

After downloading a Seaside All-In-One from the Squeak 4.4 ftp repository, I ran this:

Installer ss
        project: 'MetacelloRepository';
        install: 'ConfigurationOfSqueakSource'.
((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSqueakSource) project version: #bleedingEdge) load: #('All')



and then I ran the tests. Three of the sets of the tests give an error saying "My subclass should have overridden #versionNamed:".
If you could make it so that the tests run green, so I can run your SS3 in localhost, that would be great. Perhaps the solution is simple and you could post it here
on Squeak-dev?

Also, I recall you saying you'd be willing to install a new SS3 image for source.squeak.org. I hope that's still the case.


2)

Could you recommend a wiki to use with your Seaside 3.0.8? I think we need a replacement for the Swiki (i.e. wiki.squeak.org). It seems to me the best thing to do with the current
wiki.squeak.org is not to change it, just move it, label it archive, and start with a newer wiki application that runs in Seaside. Could that be TWWiki? If you could
recommend one that would be great.

As this is a public mailing list, if anybody wants to find a better solution to the current state of Squeak's infrastructure, they are free to suggest one.

As a side note concerning the Swiki, it runs in a non-full closure image, 3.8. Much of its code is in files on the disk accessed by a custom browser. The search function,
for instance, is in a file called 28 referenced from another file called meta.xml. That's an awkward way to work. Especially, when the debugger is flying
at you all the time.

Added to which, time spent learning how this works is irritating, if it is not applicable elsewhere. Running all four images (i.e. squeak.org, wiki, map, source) on
contemporary Seaside images would make it easier for current and future maintainers.

As a final thought, installing Ian Piumarta's RFB in each of the four images would we worthwhile. The current implementation of VNC is external to the image only understood
by one person. Many projects on Squeak servers have a bus factor of one. This is less than ideal.

FWIW,
Chris

Hi.

Am 03.07.2013 um 18:47 schrieb Chris Cunnington <[hidden email]>:

Ah yeah, The three different Monticello APIs in Squeak, Pharo, and GemStone. How I *like* em ;)

> If you could make it so that the tests run green, so I can run your SS3 in localhost, that would be great. Perhaps the solution is simple and you could post it here
> on Squeak-dev?



>
> Also, I recall you saying you'd be willing to install a new SS3 image for source.squeak.org. I hope that's still the case.

Yes. I would think making that GemStone based would be great.
However, GemStones Monticello still misses Script (preamble, postscript, …)
and so the default Update-mechanism could be broken. That's why I did
not yet take action.

>
>
> 2)
>
> Could you recommend a wiki to use with your Seaside 3.0.8? I think we need a replacement for the Swiki (i.e. wiki.squeak.org). It seems to me the best thing to do with the current
> wiki.squeak.org is not to change it, just move it, label it archive, and start with a newer wiki application that runs in Seaside. Could that be TWWiki? If you could
> recommend one that would be great.

Frankly, I have no Idea. The TWiki in SqueakSource is just
there because it always was. I jokingly chatted with dale
to replace that with Pier, but we got to the point that this
would be overkill or at least as complex as putting
SqueakSource into Pier. IIRC, this was the starting point for
Dale to think about tODE.

yep.

> As a final thought, installing Ian Piumarta's RFB in each of the four images would we worthwhile. The current implementation of VNC is external to the image only understood
> by one person. Many projects on Squeak servers have a bus factor of one. This is less than ideal.

I would strongly suggest to use GemStone for the server works.
I think it brings more benefits than downsides.
For example, I set up canary in less than 20 minutes, including
the complete gemstone install.

Best
        -Tobias

Tobias wrote:
>I would strongly suggest to use GemStone for the server works.
>I think it brings more benefits than downsides.
>For example, I set up canary in less than 20 minutes, including
>the complete gemstone install.

And the install scripts/puppet or chef recipes/blog posts are where? :)

Hmm, can I temp you with: "If you put them online I'll make you a screencast."?

Stephan

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Tobias Pape" <[hidden email]>
| To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]>
| Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 1:14:21 AM
| Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] SS3 canary question
|
| >
| > Also, I recall you saying you'd be willing to install a new SS3
| > image for source.squeak.org. I hope that's still the case.
|
| Yes. I would think making that GemStone based would be great.
| However, GemStones Monticello still misses Script (preamble,
| postscript, …)
| and so the default Update-mechanism could be broken. That's why I did
| not yet take action.
|

Presumably the missing Script bit can be addressed without too much trouble ...  are written with e WideStrings ...

Dale

Hi,

Am 06.07.2013 um 18:06 schrieb "Dale K. Henrichs" <[hidden email]>:

>
> Presumably the missing Script bit can be addressed without too much trouble ...  are written with e WideStrings ...

Yes, I have something in the pipeline for that, but not yet submitted for you.
Some tests still fail, and I have to figure out why :)

Best
        -Tobias

Am 05.07.2013 um 15:35 schrieb Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]>:

Manual installation.
Admittedly, I haven't even used the installGemstone.sh script from
seaside.gemtalksystems.com, beacuse there is already another gemstone
and some maglevs installed, so I
 - FTPed the 3.1.0.4 GemStone zip
 - Unzipped it into place
 - modified some scripts
 - deployed my stone and went on.
Yes, this is not the most repeatable installation. But it fitted me.

However, the Scripts that Norbert uses for his CI work. :)
Norbert?

Best
        -Tobias]

On Sat, 6 Jul 2013, Dale K. Henrichs wrote:
There are also other extensions written by Bert on source.squeak.org. IMHO
source.squeak.org is pretty stable, so it's not something I'd replace in
the first place. squeaksource.com is the site which needs to be replaced
ASAP. AFAIK it hasn't been updated in the past 5 years.


Levente

>
> Dale
>
>

Am 06.07.2013 um 18:23 schrieb Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]>:

… which are also part of SS3.

> IMHO source.squeak.org is pretty stable, so it's not something I'd replace in the first place.
> squeaksource.com is the site which needs to be replaced ASAP. AFAIK it hasn't been updated in the past 5 years.


Yeah I know. But I haven't got around an idea how to migrate the data.
Roughly a year ago I sat down with Andreas in Potsdam and he came up with
an idea via Sqlite and another one via XML.
  This would somehow work for the model data. But I am not sure how to
move the 14GB of MCZs from Berne to another location...

Best
        -Tobias

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Tobias Pape" <[hidden email]>
| To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]>
| Cc: "Norbert Hartl" <[hidden email]>
| Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 9:21:42 AM
| Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SS3 canary question
|
| Am 05.07.2013 um 15:35 schrieb Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]>:
|
| > Tobias wrote:
| >> I would strongly suggest to use GemStone for the server works.
| >> I think it brings more benefits than downsides.
| >> For example, I set up canary in less than 20 minutes, including
| >> the complete gemstone install.
| >
| > And the install scripts/puppet or chef recipes/blog posts are
| > where? :)
| >
| > Hmm, can I temp you with: "If you put them online I'll make you a
| > screencast."?
| >
| > Stephan
|
| Manual installation.
| Admittedly, I haven't even used the installGemstone.sh script from
| seaside.gemtalksystems.com, beacuse there is already another gemstone
| and some maglevs installed, so I
|  - FTPed the 3.1.0.4 GemStone zip
|  - Unzipped it into place
|  - modified some scripts
|  - deployed my stone and went on.
| Yes, this is not the most repeatable installation. But it fitted me.
|
| However, the Scripts that Norbert uses for his CI work. :)
| Norbert?

Tobias,

I recommend that you at least start with installGemstone.sh[1] ... the script downloads and installs a given version of GemStone, makes sure that the os is configured correctly for GemStone (shared memory and semaphores) and sets up glass/seaside extent so it's ready to run:

installGemstone.sh 3.1.0.4
source /opt/gemstone/product/seaside/defSeaside
startGemStone
topaz -l -T50000  <<EOF
set user GemStone pass swordfish
set gemstone seaside
run
"Metacello installation script for SS3"
%
commit
logout
EOF
# lauch your seaside gems...

If you have multiple GemStone installations things are a bit more complicated...Setting up the server with lighttpd/nginx/apache/daemontools/monit/cron/etc. also adds a bit more complexity ...

When we moved ss3.gemstone.com to ss3.gemtalksystems.com, I kept track of everything I did and I centralized all of the configuration files under git control for easy management and the intent to eventually share the formula but I could make them available to you as a template for getting started ...

Dale

[1] http://seaside.gemtalksystems.com/scripts/installGemstone.sh

Dale,

Am 06.07.2013 um 20:27 schrieb "Dale K. Henrichs" <[hidden email]>:

I know I know.
But I wanted to install it into a custom location, and
make sure it uses a different NetLDI port than the local maglev etc.pp.
That is why I didn't use the script :)

> If you have multiple GemStone installations things are a bit more complicated...Setting up the server with lighttpd/nginx/apache/daemontools/monit/cron/etc. also adds a bit more complexity ...
>

yes. I put it behind an nginx with FastCGI and
added a service-gem :)
I learned from you how to do all that stuff

> When we moved ss3.gemstone.com to ss3.gemtalksystems.com, I kept track of everything I did and I centralized all of the configuration files under git control for easy management and the intent to eventually share the formula but I could make them available to you as a template for getting started ...
>

For canary, I don't need it, it is set up,
but I think for Stephan or me (for future reference)
this would be valuable.

Best
        -Tobias

Am 06.07.2013 um 20:17 schrieb Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure what is the exact topic here. Automatic install of canary? I don't know what are the plans.

Stephan asked where I did document my installation
or gave a description thereof. Well, I didn't but:

> I have three sets of scripts
>
> - stone-creator (https://github.com/noha/stone-creator) that prepares a directory that holds all necessary files for gemstone to run. This way you have a clean directory for your app and at the same time you can easily install an arbitrary number of stones in your system
> - gsbuilder (https://github.com/noha/gsbuilder) This is nearly the same as the ones for squeak/pharo. In jenkins it uses the stone-creator scripts to prepare a new installation and install/test your software. That is in place when you look at https://ci.hartl.name/job/squeaksource-gs31/
> - virtual-gemstone (https://github.com/noha/virtual-gemstone). Builds a complete virtualbox based appliance containing gemstone and seaside. At the moment I'm working on it to get it up to date for newest gemstone and seaside.

Norbert, now I owe you a beer, I think :)

The remaining bit is the actual installation of SqueakSource.

MCPlatformSupport commitOnAlmostOutOfMemoryDuring: [
  Gofer project
    load: 'SqueakSource' version: #bleedingEdge group: #('All').
].

(in case something goes wrong, tell me,
so that I can fix the config :)

And for best results, add a Service Gem:
        http://code.google.com/p/glassdb/wiki/ServiceVMExample
        http://code.google.com/p/glassdb/wiki/ServiceVMExampleRunSeasideGems30Script

Best
        -Tobias

On Sat, 6 Jul 2013, Tobias Pape wrote:
That's what the internet is for. :)


Levente

>
> Best
> -Tobias
>
>
>