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Saving and Loading Spaces
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Hello,
Just want to share some thoughts about saving and loading spaces functionality in the current SDK. As the current *.c3d file implementation works around saving one active (user's avatar being in) island(world) per c3d file, assuming, that it is needed to support and the possibility of saving all other current registered islands also (at the same time). So, when somebody saves an active island(world) containing a portal to another already loaded island(world) from file, then it is impossible to restore the working portals(between islands) just loading the saved one. It is required to load all participating islands(worlds) by hand. So, if taking into consideration the concept of *.c3d as island/world's atomic file format, then may be to develop the support of an additional file format, like archive solution, which could store all required islands (c3d files) in one definite file? And after loading which, all islands will be restored automatically with working portals. Regards, Nikolay |
Re: Saving and Loading Spaces
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Excellent point - there has been a tendency to concentrate on saving
at the island level rather than collections of island (continents?). A continent file format that names (or contains) the collection of island to be fetched is the way to go. It would be good to also include something about which codebase is needed to execute the islands in the file formats. I'm now running over to the cobalt bugtracker to add a couple more issues ;-) Cheers! - Mark On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Nikolay Suslov wrote: > Hello, > > Just want to share some thoughts about saving and loading spaces > functionality in the current SDK. > > As the current *.c3d file implementation works around saving one > active (user's avatar being in) island(world) per c3d file, > assuming, that it is needed to support and the possibility of > saving all other current registered islands also (at the same time). > So, when somebody saves an active island(world) containing a portal > to another already loaded island(world) from file, > then it is impossible to restore the working portals(between > islands) just loading the saved one. It is required to load all > participating islands(worlds) by hand. > So, if taking into consideration the concept of *.c3d as island/ > world's atomic file format, then may be to develop the support of > an additional file format, > like archive solution, which could store all required islands (c3d > files) in one definite file? > And after loading which, all islands will be restored automatically > with working portals. > > Regards, > Nikolay |
Re: [Croquet Cobalt] Re: Saving and Loading Spaces
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In reply to this post by Nikolay Suslov
Want to notice, that archive could be just like one of the features, as
"all-in-one" storing method for local working or deployment modes (for
example).
The multi-island file format should be oriented to store/restore islands to/from distributed sources, like future web c3d template's wikis (with the file versions history). So that, it will contain the links to the required remote islands, which could be stored in very different places. That means, that somebody who publish one-island(c3d files) in some fixed places, couldn't fear, that other users, who have portals to that's islands, will have an outdated versions of them. While accessing, application will automatically download the required files or load from local archive/cache. Nikolay On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Rich White <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Mark P. McCahill-2
On 3/20/08, Mark P. McCahill <[hidden email]> wrote:
Excellent point - there has been a tendency to concentrate on saving Maybe archipelago? |
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I think we need to treat the concept of "saving" cautiously.
Most folks prefer "always on" over a freeze-dried copy of something. Do you want to save your TV settings, or Cell phone and load them each time you start a session? What web pages do you save and load your information on unless it's simulating a document? At least in Second Life it's always on. Those using SL only need for saving is to port something to another system, saving to another format for an application to use, or archiving for reliability. The overhead for managing lots of saved worlds / archipelagos and their individual contents may quickly become overwhelming. While we may not want a server-centered system, always-on computers may be a better way to persist worlds and keep their content individually accessible. Saving to files is only a stop-gap measure until we get to that point, or for long term archiving, in my opinion. Cheers, Darius On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Chris Cunningham <[hidden email]> wrote:
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The "saving" multi-island user configurations, could be means like "multi-bookmarking with nesting" in one click.
So, links to the islands in saved file could point to the "on-line" islands (aka postcards), along with pointing to the c3d cached ones. Users, could have all choices from deploying everything to the desktop (syncing on-line later) to just bookmarking, which require online connection to p2p network. Regards, Nikolay
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:03 AM, Darius Clarke <[hidden email]> wrote: I think we need to treat the concept of "saving" cautiously. |
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In reply to this post by Nikolay Suslov
Hi all,
I have started an (unofficial) public-editable wiki on Croquet. I know there's a few resources out there already, but I wanted something anyone can easily add information to, presented in a user-friendly manner, which can be used as referenced by any new or experienced croquet user. The idea is that ANYONE can edit pages or add new pages, sections etc,... To make it easy for anyone to share and add new content. Please, if any of you have anything to contribute or to share, feel free to add to the wiki. -- Click the [edit] tab on any page to add/edit content. To create a new page just edit the url in your browser's address bar, eg: http://croqueteers.com/index.php?n=Croquet.NewPage (replace NewPage with the name of your new page) You can then link to this page in the menu (edit SideBar link) or on any other page by adding a link like: [[NewPage]] (where NewPage is the name of the page you just added) For more information on how to edit the wiki see the Help section under Wiki in the menu. -- In the future the site will move to a beefier server and we could host vnc sessions / live tutorials on it, or maybe even a public croquet space? Feel free to brainstorm ideas. I also plan to add a web forum in the relatively near future so people can easily discuss. I know there are many channels of communication out there already, such as these mailing lists, the cobalt google group, and IRC, but I feel a good web forum would attract more new users. Croquet has been attracting lots of gamer types lately, and most of these seem to be used to web forums and feel reluctant to post on a mailing list. I'm creating these tools in an attempt to make the community stronger, and make it grow, as I feel this would in the end benefit Croquet. When more people become interested in the project, more and more will want to contribute. -John Sennesael |
Re: Saving and Loading Spaces
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In reply to this post by Darius Clarke
Could someone please send directions to be removed from this list. Thank
you. Darius Clarke wrote: > I think we need to treat the concept of "saving" cautiously. > > Most folks prefer "always on" over a freeze-dried copy of something. > Do you want to save your TV settings, or Cell phone and load them each > time you start a session? > What web pages do you save and load your information on unless it's > simulating a document? > At least in Second Life it's always on. Those using SL only need for > saving is to port something to another system, saving to another > format for an application to use, or archiving for reliability. > > The overhead for managing lots of saved worlds / archipelagos and > their individual contents may quickly become overwhelming. > > While we may not want a server-centered system, always-on computers > may be a better way to persist worlds and keep their content > individually accessible. Saving to files is only a stop-gap measure > until we get to that point, or for long term archiving, in my opinion. > > Cheers, > Darius > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Chris Cunningham > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > On 3/20/08, *Mark P. McCahill* <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Excellent point - there has been a tendency to concentrate on > saving > at the island level rather than collections of island > (continents?). > > > Maybe archipelago? > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Nikolay Suslov
Hello,
Who want to try 'one click' MultiIslands loading/saving in Cobalt and Croquet, could try the first steps in that direction. MultiIslandReaderWriter (http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu:8886/Contributions.html) So, every island/controller is snapshoted in a separate c3d file in cache directory, and then XML based file (m3d (?) extension, for example now) is generated. This file contains just the names of saved c3d files for loading and could be extended with any features later. For now the name of saved c3d file contains also and 'island id', just for experimenting on single machine with saving/loading islands. But it should just consists of an island name (which is hardcoded 'Cobalt World' + network address for now). The current Cobalt image is slightly broken (it seems to be) as it is saved with activeIsland project and island instances (In transcript look for Processor activeIsland project, Island allInstances) http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu/mantis/view.php?id=40. The problems occur when using TTeleportUtilities class methods in creating #towway portals, that returning portal does not work properly (1. load UnderWater.c3d for example (just one island c3d) 2.enter the portal 3.the return portal is mirror). With Croquet SDK image all is working ok. Regards, Nikolay Suslov On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Nikolay Suslov <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello, |
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