ScratchPlugin

> From: John Maloney <[hidden email]>
> Date: 10. September 2009 13:12:00 MESZ
> To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Software Squeakland.org" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [sq-software] Re: ScratchPlugin
>
> Hi, Bert.
>
> Re: we're about to include the ScratchPlugin with Etoys
>
> Great!
>
> Re:
>> Mostly for the incredibly useful openURL prim ;) but secondly for  
>> access to the ScratchBoard etc., Korakurider already made an Etoys  
>> interface for it (though this won't make it in this release). Now  
>> the question is if we need to include the "Scratch Source Code  
>> License" file with the Etoys release. My reading of it is that we  
>> don't. Also we both agreed that having the plugin be part of the  
>> Squeak VM proper would make things quite a bit easier, and you  
>> certainly would not require the license to be bundled with the VM  
>> in that case, right?
>
> Mitchel has given permission for you to bundle the ScratchPlugin  
> code with the Squeak VM. (You can keep this email as proof!) You  
> don't need to include the Scratch source license.
>
> It's also fine to include the include the ScratchPlugin accessor  
> methods (and the entire class). Giving credit in a class comment is  
> fine.
>
> Two questions:
>
>  (a) Are you interested in including the Scratch Unicode plugin as  
> well?
>  (b) Should I send you the latest C code for the Scratch Plugin?
>
> Actually, I'm working to bundle up the Scratch 1.4 source code  
> release, so I'll be putting a zip file of the latest C code online  
> in the next week or so. But I can send you a copy sooner if you need  
> it.
>
> -- John
>

>
> Hi folks,
>
> is it okay if I add the ScratchPlugin to VMMaker? We are including it in
> Etoys and it makes it simpler for John Maloney if was maintained in the
> official VM. We got explicit permission for that (even though it's MIT
> it doesn't hurt to ask), see forwarded message below.
>
> John is working on the 1.4 version as he wrote below, but the previous
> one would suit us fine for now, current source is here:
>
> http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code
>
> - Bert -
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: John Maloney <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 10. September 2009 13:12:00 MESZ
>> To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Software Squeakland.org" <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [sq-software] Re: ScratchPlugin
>>
>> Hi, Bert.
>>
>> Re: we're about to include the ScratchPlugin with Etoys
>>
>> Great!
>>
>> Re:
>>> Mostly for the incredibly useful openURL prim ;) but secondly for
>>> access to the ScratchBoard etc., Korakurider already made an Etoys
>>> interface for it (though this won't make it in this release). Now the
>>> question is if we need to include the "Scratch Source Code License"
>>> file with the Etoys release. My reading of it is that we don't. Also
>>> we both agreed that having the plugin be part of the Squeak VM proper
>>> would make things quite a bit easier, and you certainly would not
>>> require the license to be bundled with the VM in that case, right?
>>
>> Mitchel has given permission for you to bundle the ScratchPlugin code
>> with the Squeak VM. (You can keep this email as proof!) You don't need
>> to include the Scratch source license.
>>
>> It's also fine to include the include the ScratchPlugin accessor
>> methods (and the entire class). Giving credit in a class comment is fine.
>>
>> Two questions:
>>
>>  (a) Are you interested in including the Scratch Unicode plugin as well?
>>  (b) Should I send you the latest C code for the Scratch Plugin?
>>
>> Actually, I'm working to bundle up the Scratch 1.4 source code
>> release, so I'll be putting a zip file of the latest C code online in
>> the next week or so. But I can send you a copy sooner if you need it.
>>
>>     -- John
>>
>

> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> is it okay if I add the ScratchPlugin to VMMaker? We are including it
>> in Etoys and it makes it simpler for John Maloney if was maintained in
>> the official VM. We got explicit permission for that (even though it's
>> MIT it doesn't hurt to ask), see forwarded message below.
>>
>> John is working on the 1.4 version as he wrote below, but the previous
>> one would suit us fine for now, current source is here:
>>
>> http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: John Maloney <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: 10. September 2009 13:12:00 MESZ
>>> To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: "Software Squeakland.org" <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: [sq-software] Re: ScratchPlugin
>>>
>>> Hi, Bert.
>>>
>>> Re: we're about to include the ScratchPlugin with Etoys
>>>
>>> Great!
>>>
>>> Re:
>>>> Mostly for the incredibly useful openURL prim ;) but secondly for
>>>> access to the ScratchBoard etc., Korakurider already made an Etoys
>>>> interface for it (though this won't make it in this release). Now
>>>> the question is if we need to include the "Scratch Source Code
>>>> License" file with the Etoys release. My reading of it is that we
>>>> don't. Also we both agreed that having the plugin be part of the
>>>> Squeak VM proper would make things quite a bit easier, and you
>>>> certainly would not require the license to be bundled with the VM in
>>>> that case, right?
>>>
>>> Mitchel has given permission for you to bundle the ScratchPlugin code
>>> with the Squeak VM. (You can keep this email as proof!) You don't
>>> need to include the Scratch source license.
>>>
>>> It's also fine to include the include the ScratchPlugin accessor
>>> methods (and the entire class). Giving credit in a class comment is
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> Two questions:
>>>
>>>  (a) Are you interested in including the Scratch Unicode plugin as well?
>>>  (b) Should I send you the latest C code for the Scratch Plugin?
>>>
>>> Actually, I'm working to bundle up the Scratch 1.4 source code
>>> release, so I'll be putting a zip file of the latest C code online in
>>> the next week or so. But I can send you a copy sooner if you need it.
>>>
>>>     -- John
>>>
>>
>

> Andreas Raab wrote:
>> +1. Are you going to check in the support code as well?
>
> Uh, ah. I take that +1 back. I thought you were saying that the  
> source code is released under "MIT-License" (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php 
> ) not "released BY the MIT Lifelong Kindergarten group under the  
> Scratch Source Code License". The license is pretty problematic from  
> my point of view.
>
> I am specifically not okay with:
>
> * The idea of now and forever preventing anyone to use the name  
> "Scratch" for software that utilizes the Squeak VM (in fact, it  
> would literally prevent MIT using the stock Squeak VM for Scratch).
>
> * To place trademark restrictions into a software license (the usage  
> of logos and trademarks should not be part of a source code license;  
> there are other means of protecting those).
>
> * Now and forever make it impossible for any Squeak-based products  
> to upload anything to MIT servers (the term is written so broadly  
> that even a webserver would fall under this if it implemented a file  
> upload provision that one could use to "allow uploading Scratch  
> projects to any MIT Scratch website").
>
> * Requiring the source code for any derivative work to be made  
> available (making the license viral).
>
> This doesn't work for me at all. Could you ask John to release the  
> plugin and support code as plain old MIT license as found on http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php 
>  instead?
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>
>> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> is it okay if I add the ScratchPlugin to VMMaker? We are including  
>>> it in Etoys and it makes it simpler for John Maloney if was  
>>> maintained in the official VM. We got explicit permission for that  
>>> (even though it's MIT it doesn't hurt to ask), see forwarded  
>>> message below.
>>>
>>> John is working on the 1.4 version as he wrote below, but the  
>>> previous one would suit us fine for now, current source is here:
>>>
>>> http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: John Maloney <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: 10. September 2009 13:12:00 MESZ
>>>> To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>>>> Cc: "Software Squeakland.org" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: [sq-software] Re: ScratchPlugin
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Bert.
>>>>
>>>> Re: we're about to include the ScratchPlugin with Etoys
>>>>
>>>> Great!
>>>>
>>>> Re:
>>>>> Mostly for the incredibly useful openURL prim ;) but secondly  
>>>>> for access to the ScratchBoard etc., Korakurider already made an  
>>>>> Etoys interface for it (though this won't make it in this  
>>>>> release). Now the question is if we need to include the "Scratch  
>>>>> Source Code License" file with the Etoys release. My reading of  
>>>>> it is that we don't. Also we both agreed that having the plugin  
>>>>> be part of the Squeak VM proper would make things quite a bit  
>>>>> easier, and you certainly would not require the license to be  
>>>>> bundled with the VM in that case, right?
>>>>
>>>> Mitchel has given permission for you to bundle the ScratchPlugin  
>>>> code with the Squeak VM. (You can keep this email as proof!) You  
>>>> don't need to include the Scratch source license.
>>>>
>>>> It's also fine to include the include the ScratchPlugin accessor  
>>>> methods (and the entire class). Giving credit in a class comment  
>>>> is fine.
>>>>
>>>> Two questions:
>>>>
>>>> (a) Are you interested in including the Scratch Unicode plugin as  
>>>> well?
>>>> (b) Should I send you the latest C code for the Scratch Plugin?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I'm working to bundle up the Scratch 1.4 source code  
>>>> release, so I'll be putting a zip file of the latest C code  
>>>> online in the next week or so. But I can send you a copy sooner  
>>>> if you need it.
>>>>
>>>>    -- John
>>>>
>>>