Seaside + JQuery example page on port 9090?

Having these examples on port 9090 is making access difficult when you
are behind a firewall. Could they be moved to a regular port?


Thierry
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In Pharo you can open the Seaside Control Panel under Tools->More...->
Seaside Control Panel.


Once its open right click in the upper area and choose Add Adaptor...
then choose the type of adaptor and enter the Port you want the
Adaptor to run on.  The examples will then run on that port






On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Thierry
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I was referring to the links on http://www.seaside.st/about/examples.
The ones pointing to jQuery, jQueryUI and Scriptaculous.


Thierry
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>>>>> "Thierry" == Thierry Thelliez <[hidden email]> writes:

Thierry> I was referring to the links on http://www.seaside.st/about/examples.
Thierry> The ones pointing to jQuery, jQueryUI and Scriptaculous.

Those examples are also in the one-click image, as I recall.  Just download
the image, and run it locally, if you're on a needlessly impaired internet.

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The one-click image contains some scriptaculous examples
(http://localhost:8080/seaside/tests/scriptaculous). But I could not
find any jQuery ones.

Thierry
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On 07/08/2009, at 8:48 AM, Thierry Thelliez wrote:

> The one-click image contains some scriptaculous examples
> (http://localhost:8080/seaside/tests/scriptaculous). But I could not
> find any jQuery ones.
>
> Thierry

I think the one-click image is for Seaside 2.8.4 and the JQuery  
examples are in Seaside 2.9

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So to load seaside 2.9 get a fresh Pharos beta image and then go to http://builder.seaside.st 
  and download a Monticello load script, configured how you want it,  
and drag the *.cs file onto the Pharo image and then choose filein.  
After it's completed you should find the jquery bits you want under  
localhost:9090/seaside/tests



On Aug 6, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Steve Hayes <[hidden email]
 > wrote:
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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Thierry" == Thierry Thelliez <[hidden email]> writes:
>>>>>>            
>
> Thierry> I was referring to the links on http://www.seaside.st/about/examples.
> Thierry> The ones pointing to jQuery, jQueryUI and Scriptaculous.
>
> Those examples are also in the one-click image, as I recall.  Just download
> the image, and run it locally, if you're on a needlessly impaired internet.
>  

Needlessly or not if you're living in a bureaucratic organization with a
high level of paranoia filters for other than the most common ports exist.

If we want Seaside to be widely accessible, all of the
demonstration/example code should be available on port 80 and not
needlessly moved to some other port. Let the 'experts' hosting the
examples map the request however they like but let those in restricted
environments be free to explore all that is out there.

Anything that makes it more difficult for people to access information
in other than the most obvious way makes it more likely they will give up.

cheers
Steve
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I agree. In fact many personal firewall products also block uncommon
ports such as this one and only leave things like 80, 443, 25 etc by
default.

-Boris

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-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve
Aldred
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:36 PM
To: Seaside - general discussion
Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside + JQuery example page on port 9090?

Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Thierry" == Thierry Thelliez <[hidden email]>
writes:
>>>>>>            
>
> Thierry> I was referring to the links on
http://www.seaside.st/about/examples.
> Thierry> The ones pointing to jQuery, jQueryUI and Scriptaculous.
>
> Those examples are also in the one-click image, as I recall.  Just
download
> the image, and run it locally, if you're on a needlessly impaired
internet.
>  

Needlessly or not if you're living in a bureaucratic organization with a

high level of paranoia filters for other than the most common ports
exist.

If we want Seaside to be widely accessible, all of the
demonstration/example code should be available on port 80 and not
needlessly moved to some other port. Let the 'experts' hosting the
examples map the request however they like but let those in restricted
environments be free to explore all that is out there.

Anything that makes it more difficult for people to access information
in other than the most obvious way makes it more likely they will give
up.

cheers
Steve
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>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Aldred <[hidden email]> writes:

Steve> If we want Seaside to be widely accessible, all of the
Steve> demonstration/example code should be available on port 80 and not
Steve> needlessly moved to some other port. Let the 'experts' hosting the
Steve> examples map the request however they like but let those in restricted
Steve> environments be free to explore all that is out there.

Or, just download an image that lets it all be available locally,
as has been suggested at least three times in this thread now.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
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>>>>> "Boris" == Boris Popov <[hidden email]> writes:

Boris> I agree. In fact many personal firewall products also block uncommon
Boris> ports such as this one and only leave things like 80, 443, 25 etc by
Boris> default.

That's completely nuts.

There's nothing more "dangerous" at port 9090 than at port 80.

Anyone who constructs such a firewall is hopelessly naive, and if
you're using such a product, turn it off, and demand a refund.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Randal L. Schwartz<[hidden email]> wrote:
That is totally besides the point. Unfortunately the Seaside community
regularly tries to scare away those interested in the product by
giving unhelpful advice.

Everyone expects publically available web sites to be on port 80.
Anyone who is trying to market a web site product should understand
that people will expect stuff to be available on port 80, and also
understand the technique to make it available that way.

Dave



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Why such fierce opposition to such simple suggestion, I wonder? If it
helps attract a single person to Seaside who happens to work in a
corporate environment (or using public hotspot, or lame personal
firewall, pick one) that ultimately blocks 9090, why not? Online demos
exist solely for the purpose of making quick evaluation easier, as soon
as you ask someone to download anything, many will run away quicker than
you can say "installer".

-Boris

--
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DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Randal
L. Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:06 PM
To: Steve Aldred
Cc: Seaside - general discussion
Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside + JQuery example page on port 9090?

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Aldred <[hidden email]> writes:

Steve> If we want Seaside to be widely accessible, all of the
Steve> demonstration/example code should be available on port 80 and not
Steve> needlessly moved to some other port. Let the 'experts' hosting
the
Steve> examples map the request however they like but let those in
restricted
Steve> environments be free to explore all that is out there.

Or, just download an image that lets it all be available locally,
as has been suggested at least three times in this thread now.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777
0095
<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside
discussion
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El jue, 06-08-2009 a las 20:10 -0400, Dave Bauer escribió:
If I am developing web applications and am not capable of configure or
find the cause of my net issues I have a deeper problem that I think and
it is not fault on the Seaside community.

>
> Everyone expects publically available web sites to be on port 80.
> Anyone who is trying to market a web site product should understand
> that people will expect stuff to be available on port 80, and also
> understand the technique to make it available that way.
>

First, the "everyone" your are refering not even know what a port is.
they just write a url on the browser or better, go to google, find
something and click on a link. NO ports in the process.
Second, the fact that an webapps runs in a specific port doesn't says
nothing about the quality of the product. Rails runs on port 3000,
Tomcat in 8180. That is just a simple random port.
When you buy a domain, put your server in production then you can omit
the port by running on a standard port (80 for http) but even so, if you
are on unix/mac you can't run a server on a port below 1024 so you must
use Apache/Lighttpd to listen on 80 and proxy to the other port (3000,
8180, 8080, 9090, etc). To the user the service is running on "port 80"
but actually isn't.
So don't blame the comunnity, they are trying to help but not resolve
*all* your problems. At the end, everyone must do their homework.

Miguel Cobá

 
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Okay, something has definitely gone amiss in this thread ;) The original report was simply that the public demo may not be accessible from certain environments, which is akin to reporting a dead link IMHO. The maintainer of that specific demo site has two options: a) ignore it or b) do something about it. It is well known and documented what that person needs to do to expose Seaside services via port 80 should they choose option b) and wasn't the subject of this thread at all.

-Boris

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-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 5:25 PM
To: [hidden email]; Seaside - general discussion
Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside + JQuery example page on port 9090?

El jue, 06-08-2009 a las 20:10 -0400, Dave Bauer escribió: If I am developing web applications and am not capable of configure or
find the cause of my net issues I have a deeper problem that I think and
it is not fault on the Seaside community.

>
> Everyone expects publically available web sites to be on port 80.
> Anyone who is trying to market a web site product should understand
> that people will expect stuff to be available on port 80, and also
> understand the technique to make it available that way.
>

First, the "everyone" your are refering not even know what a port is.
they just write a url on the browser or better, go to google, find
something and click on a link. NO ports in the process.
Second, the fact that an webapps runs in a specific port doesn't says
nothing about the quality of the product. Rails runs on port 3000,
Tomcat in 8180. That is just a simple random port.
When you buy a domain, put your server in production then you can omit
the port by running on a standard port (80 for http) but even so, if you
are on unix/mac you can't run a server on a port below 1024 so you must
use Apache/Lighttpd to listen on 80 and proxy to the other port (3000,
8180, 8080, 9090, etc). To the user the service is running on "port 80"
but actually isn't.
So don't blame the comunnity, they are trying to help but not resolve
*all* your problems. At the end, everyone must do their homework.

Miguel Cobá

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Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez wrote:
You and Randal are assuming that you have control of the firewall, that
was not where this discussion started.

In many large organizations those who do control the firewalls will not
change their policies regardless of how inane they are.

Why exclude interested people just because some other decision makers in
their organizations are idiots?

Steve
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>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Aldred <[hidden email]> writes:

Steve> Why exclude interested people just because some other decision makers
Steve> in their organizations are idiots?

And I'm not excluding anyone.

If you're behind a stupidly configured firewall, just download the one-click
demo.  But you'd be better off also getting your stupidly configured firewall
working better, so as not to just solve this problem, but many others.

--
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<[hidden email]> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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On 07/08/2009, at 12:10 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

If someone just wants to see if something works, they may very well  
not want to go to the bother of convincing another group to change  
their corporate firewall policies and/or download and install an  
application. They may decide to look at another technology/solution  
instead. The Seaside community can decide if it wants to include those  
people (make an evaluation easier for them) or not. There's no  
inherent right or wrong.

I think we've established that you can't use the one-click demo to  
look at JQuery examples because it's 2.8.4.

I will say that I'm fleeing the Ruby on Rails community because of my  
perception of the arrogance and uncooperative behaviour of the core  
group at a technical level. My impression to date was that the Seaside  
community was more interested in things that "just work" and on being  
inclusive and accessible.

-----
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.
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2009/8/7 Steve Aldred <[hidden email]>:
Port 80 requires root privileges. We can't do that.

Cheers
Philippe
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Hi Thierry

> Having these examples on port 9090 is making access difficult when you
> are behind a firewall. Could they be moved to a regular port?

Thank you for reporting and your interest in Seaside.

To me it looks like the server for the JQuery and Scriptaculous demos
is simply down. The examples linked from
<http://www.seaside.st/about/examples> are provided by individual
members of the community, we don't have control over these
installations.

Maybe it would make sense to run the demos on <seaside.st> itself?
Originally we decided not to run such code on <seaside.st>, because we
prefer to improve the Scriptaculous and JQuery libraries instead of
updating the examples on the server every now and then ;-) Anyway,
I've created a bug report and I will look into this as soon as
possible: <http://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/detail?id=429>.

Cheers,
Lukas

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