Seaside book
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Hey, guys,
I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book and am wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to say: If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for free but at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their work. How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll want to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but apart from that? ===Blake=== _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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There are a few issues that are VW specific that would be nice to
cover (or at least what I would like to see) like installing, configuring and deploying. The current thread about shortening the url for apps on VW is an example of a specific VW configuration. On Jul 21, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Blake wrote: > Hey, guys, > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book and am > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to > say: If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for > free but at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their > work. > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll want > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but apart > from that? > > ===Blake=== > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > ---- Roger Whitney Department of Computer Science [hidden email] San Diego State University http://www.eli.sdsu.edu/ San Diego, CA 92182-7720 (619) 583-1978 (619) 594-3535 (office) (619) 594-6746 (fax) _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
Hi Blake, it's GREAT to hear that someone is starting to do some research for a forthcoming book about Seaside. Anyway, I'll keep this short and sweet. I think a very good example would be to follow a structure similar to "Agile Web Development with Rails 2ed" by Dave Thomas et al. Thus, I would be interested in seeing the following in the table of contents:
1 Introduction Part I 2 The Architecture of Seaside Applications
3 Installing Seaside 3.1 Squeak Smalltalk 3.2 VisualWorks Smalltalk 3.3 Seaside and Databases 3.4 Keeping Up-to-Date
3.5 Pre-Deploymnent Information 4 My First Seaside Application Note: This chapter should be devoted to getting an application up and running. Thus, there will be one or more subsections as needed.
Part II - Building an Application Note: The chapters and associated sections within Part II should be devoted to design and implementing an entire dynamic web application from beginning to end. For example, a better MySpace would be GREAT to see but I leave this up to you.
Part III - Seaside Framework Note: The chapters and associated sections within Part III should be devoted to learning the ins and out of the Seaside Framework (
i.e. detailed reference with examples). Furthermore, it should cover all of the major pieces in separate chapters and associated subsections. Part IV - Security and Deployment of Seaside Application
Note: The title says it all but I think here is wear you'll step the novice reader through a pseudo-script. Then you'll step the user through the actual deployment of the application that they built in Part II.
Part V - Appendices A Introduction to Smalltalk
B Other appendices can be added as needed Lastly, this is just a suggestion and it worked when I first read the agile book. Also, you might find it feasible to move the appendix on "Introduction to Smalltalk" to the chapter after installation but I feel that the goal of the book is about Seaside. Thus, I feel that it's appropriate in the appendix. Just something to think about. Also, I would be very interested in assisting in the book's structure, implementation, and code testing. Well, I must go and I wish you all the best.
Good luck, -Conrad On 7/21/07, Blake <[hidden email]> wrote: Hey, guys, _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
Excellent!
May be we should sync since david, rick and me have been working on a seaside book: getting starting with Seaside. Because it would be nice to have a advanced seaside follow up. We were planning (argh) to get a draft public version for the end of the summer (re arg). But may be this is the time to kick us and put it public. We will discuss between us to see. Stef On 22 juil. 07, at 00:09, Blake wrote: > Hey, guys, > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book and am > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to > say: If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for > free but at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their > work. > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll want > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but apart > from that? > > ===Blake=== > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside (you left
out Dolphin and GemStone) have a no-cost edition. It seems that addressing each of these alternatives would be valuable. James Blake wrote: > Hey, guys, > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book and am > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to say: > If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for free but > at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their work. > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll want > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but apart > from that? > > ===Blake=== > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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2007/7/22, James Foster <[hidden email]>:
> I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside (you left > out Dolphin and GemStone) have a no-cost edition. It seems that > addressing each of these alternatives would be valuable. Does anyody know if the Dolphin port has ever been updated or what changes went into it since the original port? Philippe > James > > Blake wrote: > > Hey, guys, > > > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book and am > > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to say: > > If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for free but > > at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their work. > > > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll want > > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but apart > > from that? > > > > ===Blake=== > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:13:45 -0700, stephane ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote: > Excellent! > May be we should sync since david, rick and me have been working on a > seaside book: getting starting with Seaside. > Because it would be nice to have a advanced seaside follow up. We were > planning (argh) to get a draft public version for the end of > the summer (re arg). But may be this is the time to kick us and put it > public. We will discuss between us to see. So...you have the basics covered, you're saying? Maybe I should look at an outline of what you're doing so as not to duplicate it? Are you assuming Smalltalk and/or other programming proficieny? _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by jgfoster
Hi James, I agree with you 100% addressing all the versions of Smalltalk. However, I would save Gemstone/S for the database integration parts of the book but Dolphin Smalltalk would added to the installation parts of the book. Anyway, in the outline that I proposed, I assumed that the reader had
programming proficiency but I added the "Introduction to Smalltalk" appendix for people that do not. It would be GREAT to incorporate something like this in the forthcoming books on Seaside.
-Conrad On 7/22/07, James Foster <[hidden email]> wrote: I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside (you left _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Seaside book
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
Except GemStone in this context is way more than just a database, its also the execution platform for seaside itself so would have to be accounted for throughout IMHO. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi, I just wouldn't want to introduce something into a book that's not supported on all the major platforms. At this time, it doesn't support Mac OS X but it support Linux and Windows. Also, Dolphin Smalltalk only supports the Windows platform from my understanding. However, it does have support Seaside
2.7 on Dolphin Smalltalk X6. This is very good to hear and one can find more information hear:
-Conrad On 7/22/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Just a quick chime-in here...
I have a contact at Manning Books that is looking for new topics. I am not sure if the books being discussed here are meant to be free. If not, and if you want to consider a publisher, please contact me offline. -- Jason Rogers "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20 _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
I'm not sure your restriction makes sense in today's world.
You can happily run Ubuntu Server Linux in a VMWare environment on a MacBook or
other machine, and use Squeak on the native environment as a development
platform.
GLASS (GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, and Smalltalk) as
a deployment environment (instead of LAMP) will also run in a virtualized
machine. http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/ is
running in a virtualized Xen domU with 768MB of RAM and a 20GB disk image. The
underlying hardware is a dual-processor Opteron 252 2.6GHz with 2GB of RAM which
also runs GemStone’s other external websites, mail, a Confluence wiki, and
DNS.
-- Monty
_______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi Monty, you're correct but the goal of the book is Seaside. Next,
VMWare isn't free and I would not expect my customers to purchase VMWare, install Ubuntu, and finally install a Smalltalk environment and Seaside packages. I prefer one to focus on installing the Smalltalk environment and the Seaside package(s). Monty, just because I can use VMWare doesn't mean that it's necessary or needed for learning Seaside. In short, the book should be focused on learning Seaside in the native development environment whether it be VisualWorks, Dolphin, and Squeak environments. Now, if my deployable image is VisualWorks or Dolphin, how would installing VMWare satisfy these users? -Conrad On 7/27/07, Monty Williams <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > I'm not sure your restriction makes sense in today's world. You can happily > run Ubuntu Server Linux in a VMWare environment on a MacBook or other > machine, and use Squeak on the native environment as a development platform. > > GLASS (GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, and Smalltalk) as a deployment > environment (instead of LAMP) will also run in a virtualized machine. > http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/ is running in a virtualized Xen domU with > 768MB of RAM and a 20GB disk image. The underlying hardware is a > dual-processor Opteron 252 2.6GHz with 2GB of RAM which also runs GemStone's > other external websites, mail, a Confluence wiki, and DNS. > > -- Monty > > > ________________________________ > From: Conrad Taylor [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:27 PM > To: Seaside - general discussion > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book > > > Hi, I just wouldn't want to introduce something into a book that's not > supported on all the major platforms. At this time, it doesn't support Mac > OS X but it support Linux and Windows. Also, Dolphin Smalltalk only > supports the Windows platform from my understanding. However, it does have > support Seaside 2.7 on Dolphin Smalltalk X6. This is very good to hear and > one can find more information hear: > > > > http://dolphinseaside.blogspot.com/ > > > -Conrad > > On 7/22/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Except GemStone in this context is way more than just a database, its also > the execution platform for seaside itself so would have to be accounted for > throughout IMHO. > > > > Cheers! > > > > -Boris > > (Sent from a BlackBerry) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [hidden email] < > [hidden email]> > > To: Seaside - general discussion <[hidden email] .org> > > Sent: Sun Jul 22 16:58:15 2007 > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book > > > > Hi James, I agree with you 100% addressing all the versions of Smalltalk. > However, I would save Gemstone/S for the database integration parts of the > book but Dolphin Smalltalk would added to the installation parts of the > book. Anyway, in the outline that I proposed, I assumed that the reader had > > programming proficiency but I added the "Introduction to Smalltalk" > appendix for people that do not. > > It would be GREAT to incorporate something like this in the forthcoming > books on Seaside. > > > > -Conrad > > > > > > On 7/22/07, James Foster <[hidden email] < > mailto:[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside (you > left > > out Dolphin and GemStone) have a no-cost edition. It seems that > > addressing each of these alternatives would be valuable. > > > > James > > > > Blake wrote: > > > Hey, guys, > > > > > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book > and am > > > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to > say: > > > If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for > free but > > > at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their work. > > > > > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll > want > > > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but > apart > > > from that? > > > > > > ===Blake=== > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] .org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation > .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] .org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation < http://lists.squeakfoundation> > .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] .org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Seaside book
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
Not quite still. VMware Player is free and users don't need to install Ubuntu themselves, they could download GemStone's Seaside VM with everything included and configured, which as a matter of fact may be easier than installing and setting up VisualWorks from scratch for instance. All dialects deserve a mention and quick start sections IMHO. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi, I had to install one package when I got started with Seaside on
VisualWorks and this process took about 5 minutes or so. Next, VMWare seems to only support Intel based Macs. Thus, this will not work on non-Intel based Macs. Also, with the forthcoming VMWare Fusion, it's slated for Intel based Macs. In any case, agree with Boris that there needs to be converage for the various dialects. Does the Gemstone Seaside VM work with VisualWorks? -Conrad On 7/27/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Not quite still. VMware Player is free and users don't need to install > Ubuntu themselves, they could download GemStone's Seaside VM with > everything included and configured, which as a matter of fact may be easier > than installing and setting up VisualWorks from scratch for instance. All > dialects deserve a mention and quick start sections IMHO. > > Cheers! > > -Boris > (Sent from a BlackBerry) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [hidden email] > <[hidden email]> > To: Seaside - general discussion > <[hidden email]> > Sent: Fri Jul 27 18:26:13 2007 > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book > > Hi Monty, you're correct but the goal of the book is Seaside. Next, > VMWare isn't free and I would not expect my customers to purchase > VMWare, install Ubuntu, and finally install a Smalltalk environment > and Seaside packages. I prefer one to focus on installing the > Smalltalk environment and the Seaside package(s). Monty, just because > I can use VMWare doesn't mean that it's necessary or needed for > learning Seaside. In short, the book should be focused on learning > Seaside in the native development environment whether it be > VisualWorks, Dolphin, and Squeak environments. Now, if my deployable > image is VisualWorks or Dolphin, how would installing VMWare satisfy > these users? > > -Conrad > > On 7/27/07, Monty Williams <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure your restriction makes sense in today's world. You can > happily > > run Ubuntu Server Linux in a VMWare environment on a MacBook or other > > machine, and use Squeak on the native environment as a development > platform. > > > > GLASS (GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, and Smalltalk) as a deployment > > environment (instead of LAMP) will also run in a virtualized machine. > > http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/ is running in a virtualized Xen domU with > > 768MB of RAM and a 20GB disk image. The underlying hardware is a > > dual-processor Opteron 252 2.6GHz with 2GB of RAM which also runs > GemStone's > > other external websites, mail, a Confluence wiki, and DNS. > > > > -- Monty > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Conrad Taylor [mailto:[hidden email]] > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:27 PM > > To: Seaside - general discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book > > > > > > Hi, I just wouldn't want to introduce something into a book that's not > > supported on all the major platforms. At this time, it doesn't support > Mac > > OS X but it support Linux and Windows. Also, Dolphin Smalltalk only > > supports the Windows platform from my understanding. However, it does > have > > support Seaside 2.7 on Dolphin Smalltalk X6. This is very good to hear > and > > one can find more information hear: > > > > > > > > http://dolphinseaside.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > -Conrad > > > > On 7/22/07, Boris Popov <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except GemStone in this context is way more than just a database, its > also > > the execution platform for seaside itself so would have to be accounted > for > > throughout IMHO. > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > -Boris > > > (Sent from a BlackBerry) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [hidden email] < > > [hidden email]> > > > To: Seaside - general discussion <[hidden email] .org> > > > Sent: Sun Jul 22 16:58:15 2007 > > > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book > > > > > > Hi James, I agree with you 100% addressing all the versions of > Smalltalk. > > However, I would save Gemstone/S for the database integration parts of > the > > book but Dolphin Smalltalk would added to the installation parts of the > > book. Anyway, in the outline that I proposed, I assumed that the reader > had > > > programming proficiency but I added the "Introduction to Smalltalk" > > appendix for people that do not. > > > It would be GREAT to incorporate something like this in the forthcoming > > books on Seaside. > > > > > > -Conrad > > > > > > > > > On 7/22/07, James Foster <[hidden email] < > > mailto:[hidden email]> > wrote: > > > > > > I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside > (you > > left > > > out Dolphin and GemStone) have a no-cost edition. It seems that > > > addressing each of these alternatives would be valuable. > > > > > > James > > > > > > Blake wrote: > > > > Hey, guys, > > > > > > > > I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside > book > > and am > > > > wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is > to > > say: > > > > If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for > > free but > > > > at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their > work. > > > > > > > > How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, > I'll > > want > > > > to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but > > apart > > > > from that? > > > > > > > > ===Blake=== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Seaside mailing list > > > > [hidden email] .org > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation > > .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] .org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation < http://lists.squeakfoundation> > > .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] .org > > > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Blake-5
Conrad Taylor a écrit :
> > Hi, I had to install one package when I got started with Seaside on > > VisualWorks and this process took about 5 minutes or so. Next, VMWare > > seems to only support Intel based Macs. Thus, this will not work on > > non-Intel based Macs. Also, with the forthcoming VMWare Fusion, it's > > slated for Intel based Macs. In any case, agree with Boris that there > > needs to be converage for the various dialects. Does the Gemstone > > Seaside VM work with VisualWorks? > > > > -Conrad > > > > opensource edition and it seems it works on all platforms. FWIW Cédrick _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Conrad Taylor
Conrad Taylor wrote:
> VMWare isn't free See http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html for the free versions of VMware. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Conrad Taylor
Conrad Taylor wrote:
> Does the Gemstone Seaside VM work with VisualWorks? Yes, for certain definitions of "work with." But why do you ask? James _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi, I ask because I use VisualWorks in development. Next, I'm plan to deploy with VisualWorks as well.
-Conrad
On 7/28/07,
James Foster <[hidden email]> wrote: Conrad Taylor wrote: _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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If you plan to deploy your Seaside application with VisualWorks, then
were you thinking of using GemStone just for persistence? If so, then the traditional GBS (GemBuilder for Smalltalk) works just fine with VisualWorks. Note, however, that the no-cost "Web Edition" of GemStone does not include GBS. To use GBS you would need another license. James Conrad Taylor wrote: > Hi, I ask because I use VisualWorks in development. Next, I'm plan to > deploy with VisualWorks as well. > > -Conrad > > On 7/28/07, * James Foster* <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > Conrad Taylor wrote: > > Does the Gemstone Seaside VM work with VisualWorks? > Yes, for certain definitions of "work with." But why do you ask? > > James > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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