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Matthew Schmidt-2

Skeletal Animation Problems

Hi folks,

I've created two separate animated models for skeletal animation testing. I've exported them using the Ogre exporter from Blender. Now they really look super wacky in Croquet.

Here is a link to a movie that outlines the problem visually.

http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov

The first two scenes are Blender renders of my first model for reference of what I believe it should look like in Croquet. The third scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.

The fourth scene is a Blender render of a much simpler model animation. The final scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.

I'm not sure what my problem is, but I do get hundreds of "Warning: Vertex without bone assignment" errors when I export with the Ogre exporter for both models. Am I on to something? How might I approach debugging?

Thanks,

-Matt

waufrepi III

Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

Hi Matt,

I took a quick look at your model. I'm no expert but I think i remeber that your supposed to apply the subsur modifier to your mesh before your final export to Croquet. The .blend file I have from you doesn't have it applied.... Also, double check the vertex groups and make sure you didn't miss any vertices when creating/assigning different vertex groups to armature bones.

waufrepi

On 3/7/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

I've created two separate animated models for skeletal animation testing. I've exported them using the Ogre exporter from Blender. Now they really look super wacky in Croquet.

Here is a link to a movie that outlines the problem visually.

<a href="http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov

The first two scenes are Blender renders of my first model for reference of what I believe it should look like in Croquet. The third scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.

The fourth scene is a Blender render of a much simpler model animation. The final scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.

I'm not sure what my problem is, but I do get hundreds of "Warning: Vertex without bone assignment" errors when I export with the Ogre exporter for both models. Am I on to something? How might I approach debugging?

Thanks,

-Matt

David Faught

Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

In reply to this post by Matthew Schmidt-2

On 3/6/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've created two separate animated models for skeletal animation testing.
> I've exported them using the Ogre exporter from Blender. Now they really
> look super wacky in Croquet.
>
> Here is a link to a movie that outlines the problem visually.
>
> http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov
>
> The first two scenes are Blender renders of my first model for reference of
> what I believe it should look like in Croquet. The third scene is how this
> model actually renders in Croquet.
>
> The fourth scene is a Blender render of a much simpler model animation. The
> final scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.
>
> I'm not sure what my problem is, but I do get hundreds of "Warning: Vertex
> without bone assignment" errors when I export with the Ogre exporter for
> both models. Am I on to something? How might I approach debugging?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Matt

I can attest to the fact that sometimes the screwups are the most
entertaining, especially after some of the things that happened while
working on the MockTurtle and VRML loader projects.

So, it would be best to eliminate the warnings. If a vertex is not
assigned to any bone, it will not be deformed by any part of the
animation. If there is not an obvious better choice, then the vertex
can at least be assigned to the "root" bone. You can often pick these
out visually because they don't move. This applies to both models,
but is very easy to see in the second, simpler model.

I think that the problems with the first, more detailed model are also
something else, possibly along the lines of not having the triangle
draw directions all the same (there's some term for that, but I don't
recall) or maybe exceeding the 28 bone limit of the Skeletal Animation
package. In Blender, you might try recalculating the normals (it's in
there somewhere ;) before exporting the model. I think maybe having a
Transcript window open would give you more information when Croquet
starts up.

Dave

waufrepi III

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

if this be the case:

to recalculate the normals. select all [a], [ctrl+ n] to recalculate normals.

to see, go to buttons panel f9, mesh tools 1, select draw normals.

could you documents the import process by any chance?

ciao,

wfpi

On 3/7/08, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 3/6/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I've created two separate animated models for skeletal animation testing.
> I've exported them using the Ogre exporter from Blender. Now they really
> look super wacky in Croquet.
>
> Here is a link to a movie that outlines the problem visually.
>
> http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov
>
> The first two scenes are Blender renders of my first model for reference of
> what I believe it should look like in Croquet. The third scene is how this
> model actually renders in Croquet.
>
> The fourth scene is a Blender render of a much simpler model animation. The
> final scene is how this model actually renders in  Croquet.
>
> I'm not sure what my problem is, but I do get hundreds of "Warning: Vertex
> without bone assignment" errors when I export with the Ogre exporter for
> both models. Am I on to something? How might I approach debugging?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Matt

I can attest to the fact that sometimes the screwups are the most
entertaining, especially after some of the things that happened while
working on the MockTurtle and VRML loader projects.

So, it would be best to eliminate the warnings.  If a vertex is not
assigned to any bone, it will not be deformed by any part of the
animation.  If there is not an obvious better choice, then the vertex
can at least be assigned to the "root" bone.  You can often pick these
out visually because they don't move.  This applies to both models,
but is very easy to see in the second, simpler model.

I think that the problems with the first, more detailed model are also
something else, possibly along the lines of not having the triangle
draw directions all the same (there's some term for that, but I don't
recall) or maybe exceeding the 28 bone limit of the Skeletal Animation
package.  In Blender, you might try recalculating the normals (it's in
there somewhere ;) before exporting the model.  I think maybe having a
Transcript window open would give you more information when Croquet
starts up.

Dave

David Faught

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

On 3/7/08, waufrepi III <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ...
> could you documents the import process by any chance?
>
> ciao,
>
> wfpi

Please take a look at the background section of the page at
http://croquetconsortium.org/index.php/Skeletal_Animation_Example
For now, there are no menu items to invoke this importer. I'm sure
that will be a part of the Cobalt project.

> On 3/7/08, David Faught <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 3/6/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I've created two separate animated models for skeletal animation
> testing.
> > > I've exported them using the Ogre exporter from Blender. Now they really
> > > look super wacky in Croquet.
> > >
> > > Here is a link to a movie that outlines the problem visually.
> > >
> > >
> http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/skeletal_animation_problems.mov
> > >
> > > The first two scenes are Blender renders of my first model for reference
> of
> > > what I believe it should look like in Croquet. The third scene is how
> this
> > > model actually renders in Croquet.
> > >
> > > The fourth scene is a Blender render of a much simpler model animation.
> The
> > > final scene is how this model actually renders in Croquet.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what my problem is, but I do get hundreds of "Warning:
> Vertex
> > > without bone assignment" errors when I export with the Ogre exporter for
> > > both models. Am I on to something? How might I approach debugging?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -Matt
> >
> >
> > I can attest to the fact that sometimes the screwups are the most
> > entertaining, especially after some of the things that happened while
> > working on the MockTurtle and VRML loader projects.
> >
> > So, it would be best to eliminate the warnings. If a vertex is not
> > assigned to any bone, it will not be deformed by any part of the
> > animation. If there is not an obvious better choice, then the vertex
> > can at least be assigned to the "root" bone. You can often pick these
> > out visually because they don't move. This applies to both models,
> > but is very easy to see in the second, simpler model.
> >
> > I think that the problems with the first, more detailed model are also
> > something else, possibly along the lines of not having the triangle
> > draw directions all the same (there's some term for that, but I don't
> > recall) or maybe exceeding the 28 bone limit of the Skeletal Animation
> > package. In Blender, you might try recalculating the normals (it's in
> > there somewhere ;) before exporting the model. I think maybe having a
> > Transcript window open would give you more information when Croquet
> > starts up.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
>

Matthew Schmidt-2

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

I'll write up a tutorial once I get my head around it.

-Matt

waufrepi III

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

Dave,

thanks for pointing to the Skeletal animation example. I have that bookmarked and read. but I don't think I have the animation package in my image cause when I search for TAnimated mesh I don't find, or the TLoadOgreMesh. how do I search with moticello to get to my Magic Ninja's?

I won't get a chance to look at Cobalt till this weekend.

Matt,

if you want to split the load for documents maybe we could work on something together. I could for instance handle (to start) a basic installing exporter script, creating an armature rig for mesh, assigning to vertex groups and such. let me know

wfpi

On 3/7/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'll write up a tutorial once I get my head around it.

-Matt

Peter Moore-5

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

If you don't have Cobalt, you'll need to install the SkeletalAnimation package. It's available from the Jabberwocky code repository (http://source.opencroquet.org/).

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:32 AM, waufrepi III wrote:

Dave,
thanks for pointing to the Skeletal animation example. I have that bookmarked and read. but I don't think I have the animation package in my image cause when I search for TAnimated mesh I don't find, or the TLoadOgreMesh. how do I search with moticello to get to my Magic Ninja's?
I won't get a chance to look at Cobalt till this weekend.

Matt,
if you want to split the load for documents maybe we could work on something together. I could for instance handle (to start) a basic installing exporter script, creating an armature rig for mesh, assigning to vertex groups and such. let me know
wfpi

On 3/7/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'll write up a tutorial once I get my head around it.

-Matt

Matthew Schmidt-2

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

I applied the subsurf to the mesh and exported again in OgreXML. Tried to import and I'm getting the following from my transcript:

/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/arrow.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/cross.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/cross.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/minus.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/HandOpen.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/HandClosed.ASE
.....Loaded.
/Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/camera.ASE
.....Loaded.
added skeleton animations for Plane-Armature.skeleton
error, too many vertex weights per vertex!

Doh!!!

-Matt

Peter Moore-5

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

That means that you have more than 4 bones influencing at least one
vertex. There is rarely any good reason for having more than a couple
of bone influences. How are you attaching the vertices to bones in
Blender? If I remember correctly you can assign them by hand using
the selection tools (a pain), have Blender automatically assign based
on the distance to the bone, or paint them on. If you're using the
automatic assignment try reducing the radius of influence for each bone.

-Peter

On Mar 7, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Matthew Schmidt wrote:

> I applied the subsurf to the mesh and exported again in OgreXML.
> Tried to import and I'm getting the following from my transcript:
>
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/arrow.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/cross.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/cross.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/minus.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/HandOpen.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/HandClosed.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> /Applications/Croquet.iSocial/Content/Widgets/camera.ASE
> .....Loaded.
> added skeleton animations for Plane-Armature.skeleton
> error, too many vertex weights per vertex!
>
> Doh!!!
>
> -Matt

Matthew Schmidt-2

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

Getting better using the robot model. Was able to export with no complaints after manually assigning vertex groups to bones... but it looks like I have some work to do on various weights, as some vertices are shared by multiple bones.

http://bengal.missouri.edu/~schmidtma/croquet/getting_better.mov

I have more work to do with the Dobby model. I painted on the bone influences using the weight painter in Blender. I'll look into other options.

-Matt

David Faught

Re: Re: Skeletal Animation Problems

In reply to this post by waufrepi III

On 3/7/08, waufrepi III <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Dave,
>
> thanks for pointing to the Skeletal animation example. I have that
> bookmarked and read. but I don't think I have the animation package in my
> image cause when I search for TAnimated mesh I don't find, or the
> TLoadOgreMesh. how do I search with moticello to get to my Magic Ninja's?
>
> I won't get a chance to look at Cobalt till this weekend.

This package is also in the "Current Build" that you can get from the
Download section of the Croquet Consortium's wiki. But it might be
better at this point to work with Cobalt.

>
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> if you want to split the load for documents maybe we could work on
> something together. I could for instance handle (to start) a basic
> installing exporter script, creating an armature rig for mesh, assigning to
> vertex groups and such. let me know
>
> wfpi
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/7/08, Matthew Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'll write up a tutorial once I get my head around it.
> >
> > -Matt
> >
> >
> >
>
>