Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

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Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept
This was for an heterogeneous audience (10% devel 10% creatives a couple of angel investors and most people with administration profile)

Here the slides:
http://dinos.flowingconcept.com

I'm pretty confident that most of you here will connect the dots ;)

sebastian

o/

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Sebastian,

Interesting to see a link to http://amber-lang.net/ after all these
dinosaurs. (I do not include AK and some others).

https://github.com/hakimel/reveal.js is nice HTML5 presentation
framework though all these 3D moves get tiring after some time. But it
allows as well just for horizontal slide transitions.

BTW where did nice Amber slide shows go we had before? They might
benefit of an 0.12.4 overhaul as well.

And please, your link to your 10 reasons why you use Smalltalk, could
you please repost  it. here?

--Hannes



On 4/26/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This was for an heterogeneous audience (10% devel 10% creatives a couple of
> angel investors and most people with administration profile)
>
> Here the slides:
> http://dinos.flowingconcept.com
>
> I'm pretty confident that most of you here will connect the dots ;)
>
> sebastian
>
> o/
>
> --
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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

philippeback
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept
Hey, super nice.

Is that thing in a repo somewhere? I see some reuse for the format!

Phil

--


On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 7:51 PM, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
This was for an heterogeneous audience (10% devel 10% creatives a couple of angel investors and most people with administration profile)

Here the slides:
http://dinos.flowingconcept.com

I'm pretty confident that most of you here will connect the dots ;)

sebastian

o/

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept
On Apr 26, 2014, at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Hey, super nice.

Is that thing in a repo somewhere? I see some reuse for the format!

Thanks Philippe!

It is now…

Here:

fork and steal at will

PS: note that it has the / and the /admin version so the speaker can control the slides of the audience (suck that powerpoint/keynote!)


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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel


On Saturday, April 26, 2014 3:27:37 PM UTC-3, Hannes wrote:
...
And please, your link to your 10 reasons why you use Smalltalk, could
you please repost  it. here?

--Hannes


10 reasons why I'm using Smalltalk for airflowing

 
http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/10-reasons-why-im-using-smalltalk-for-airflowing 


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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Thank you for the link for the reasons for using Smalltalk, Sebastian.

I think PhysicsJS is currently a great choice to demonstrate the
capabilities of Amber. I suggest that we do an expanded demo.

For example we could translate the code from the front page of
PhysicsJS. And the other examples from that web page.
http://wellcaffeinated.net/PhysicsJS/

So far I took the JavaScript code from the front page and used the
JavaScript code as is

here https://github.com/hhzl/Amber-Paper-Demo/blob/master/index.html

That project contains some more simple examples of 4 other libraries
- paperjs
- fabricjs
- svg.js
- Snap.svg (successor of Raphaeljs for newer browsers)

The examples are very simple and need to be expanded to be attractive.

Quite a number of  code examples are translated to Smalltalk (see
other threads of today about constructors).

So we need to decide on what to focus for a more elaborate demo.

--Hannes

On 4/28/14, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, April 26, 2014 3:27:37 PM UTC-3, Hannes wrote:
>>
>> ...
>> And please, your link to your 10 reasons why you use Smalltalk, could
>> you please repost  it. here?
>>
>> --Hannes
>>
>>
>> 10 reasons why I'm using Smalltalk for airflowing
>
> http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/10-reasons-why-im-using-smalltalk-for-airflowing
>
>
>
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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept

On Apr 28, 2014, at 12:52 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

So we need to decide on what to focus for a more elaborate demo.

sounds good but the bar is higher.

Translating code to Amber is only catching-up with the world (survival).

We need to show a lot more value easy and fast (success).

The physics metaphor and all the visual stuff is the best ammunition in my experience

What are the things you think we could focus for that?

We need to make them go from zero-to-hero in one workshop.

That’s how we recruit talent growing our chances of (a) survival and (b)  success


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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Sebastian,

On 4/28/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Apr 28, 2014, at 12:52 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So we need to decide on what to focus for a more elaborate demo.
>
> sounds good but the bar is higher.
>
> Translating code to Amber is only catching-up with the world (survival).

I am not talking about translating JavaScript libraries. They often
constitute years of work.
I mean the script which show how to use them, they should be in Amber.
Or at least to a major part.

> We need to show a lot more value easy and fast (success).

Yes, easy and fast.


> The physics metaphor and all the visual stuff is the best ammunition in my
> experience

I agree

> What are the things you think we could focus for that?

Have a few good simulations.

> We need to make them go from zero-to-hero in one workshop.

Yes.

> That's how we recruit talent growing our chances of (a) survival and (b)
> success

Yes.


--Hannes

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sebastian,
>
> On 4/28/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
...
>> The physics metaphor and all the visual stuff is the best ammunition in
>> my
>> experience
>
> I agree
>
>> What are the things you think we could focus for that?
>
> Have a few good simulations.


e.g. something like https://github.com/dvberkel/traffic-simulation

About the GUI
- interesting how rules can be composed by clicking (if(distance >=
4){ return speed + 1; })
- having to click repeatedly on 'step' is clumsy
- It is not clear what the units mean.




(The GUI is not intuitive)

HH.

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Not a terribly new idea,
 cf http://classes.soe.ucsc.edu/cmps112/Spring03/languages/smalltalk/visualworksinstall.pdf

But maybe more appealing in terms of graphics with Amber ...

On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sebastian,
>>
>> On 4/28/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
> ...
>>> The physics metaphor and all the visual stuff is the best ammunition in
>>> my
>>> experience
>>
>> I agree
>>
>>> What are the things you think we could focus for that?
>>
>> Have a few good simulations.
>
>
> e.g. something like https://github.com/dvberkel/traffic-simulation
>
> About the GUI
> - interesting how rules can be composed by clicking (if(distance >=
> 4){ return speed + 1; })
> - having to click repeatedly on 'step' is clumsy
> - It is not clear what the units mean.
>
>
>
>
> (The GUI is not intuitive)
>
> HH.
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
And here
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/0201895358/sourcecode/smcode.html

Readme for The Smalltalk Traffic Light System Application

This  file contains the application developed in Chapter 9 of "The CRC Book".

From 1997 --- now 17 years later a visualization in the browser might be nice.



On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not a terribly new idea,
>  cf
> http://classes.soe.ucsc.edu/cmps112/Spring03/languages/smalltalk/visualworksinstall.pdf
>
> But maybe more appealing in terms of graphics with Amber ...
>
> On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 4/28/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Sebastian,
>>>
>>> On 4/28/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>> ...
>>>> The physics metaphor and all the visual stuff is the best ammunition in
>>>> my
>>>> experience
>>>
>>> I agree
>>>
>>>> What are the things you think we could focus for that?
>>>
>>> Have a few good simulations.
>>
>>
>> e.g. something like https://github.com/dvberkel/traffic-simulation
>>
>> About the GUI
>> - interesting how rules can be composed by clicking (if(distance >=
>> 4){ return speed + 1; })
>> - having to click repeatedly on 'step' is clumsy
>> - It is not clear what the units mean.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (The GUI is not intuitive)
>>
>> HH.
>>
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Sean P. DeNigris
Administrator
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
H. Hirzel wrote
So we need to decide on what to focus for a more elaborate demo.
<far out random observation>
Dan Ingalls received furious applause demoing Morphic in the Lively Kernel [1]. Amber as an easier way to write non-WYSIWYG web UIs feels like what Alan Kay calls "re-inventing the flat tire" instead of returning to the vision we already had in 1963 with Sketchpad. Of course if you get too far ahead of the curve, no one will understand WTH you're talking about and you'll never get off the ground (see Smalltalk, ignoring licensing/cost issues), but now maybe things like Meteor, HTML5 canvas, and LK have paved the ground to spread a real blue plane idea...
</far out random observation>

[1] There are better examples, but http://blip.tv/jsconf/jsconf2012-daniel-henry-holmes-ingalls-jr-6106503 @ 6:25, 17:45, 22:45, 26:50 will serve
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept

On Apr 28, 2014, at 8:58 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

<far out random observation>
Dan Ingalls received furious applause demoing Morphic in the Lively Kernel
[1]. Amber as an easier way to write non-WYSIWYG web UIs feels like what
Alan Kay calls "re-inventing the flat tire" instead of returning to the
vision we already had in 1963 with Sketchpad. Of course if you get too far
ahead of the curve, no one will understand WTH you're talking about and
you'll never get off the ground (see Smalltalk, ignoring licensing/cost
issues), but now maybe things like Meteor, HTML5 canvas, and LK have paved
the ground to spread a real blue plane idea...
</far out random observation>

[1] There are better examples, but
http://blip.tv/jsconf/jsconf2012-daniel-henry-holmes-ingalls-jr-6106503 @
6:25, 17:45, 22:45, 26:50 will serve

Actually is the kind of thing I’m interesting in hearing about.

Can you elaborate on the real blue plane idea Sean?

Also need reference on what LK is? 

thanks!

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Sean P. DeNigris
Administrator
sebastianconcept wrote
Can you elaborate on the real blue plane idea Sean?
If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit in everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If you go back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what I want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and CSS (which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js and css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL in Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG), then plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter, with it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down and make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec, which hides the live objects under layers of hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC Browser always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new repository" button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form? How do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.

[1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
[2] http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
[3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how to layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then reify *that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs: #MyCoolMorphSubclass".

HTH :)

sebastianconcept wrote
Also need reference on what LK is?
Sorry for the abbreviation - it's Lively Kernel.
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Sean,

thank you for reminding us about the general background.

Regarding a specific topic, what about this

Roassal in Amber running over Amber 0.12
https://github.com/pestefo/roamber12

?

Three months old, needs to be upgraded too 0.12.4

--Hannes

On 4/29/14, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> sebastianconcept wrote
>> Can you elaborate on the real blue plane idea Sean?
>
> If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit in
> everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the
> technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If you
> go
> back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the
> vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks
> like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what I
> want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like
> something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and CSS
> (which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js
> and
> css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL in
> Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG),
> then
> plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter, with
> it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal
> with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct
> universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In
> Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down and
> make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec, which
> hides the live objects under layers of
> hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite
> examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC
> Browser
> always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under
> which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new repository"
> button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and
> submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was
> hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form? How
> do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without
> leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.
>
> [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
> [2]
> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
> [3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI
> Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how to
> layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs
> themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then reify
> *that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to
> implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs:
> #MyCoolMorphSubclass".
>
> HTH :)
>
>
> sebastianconcept wrote
>> Also need reference on what LK is?
>
> Sorry for the abbreviation - it's Lively Kernel.
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Slides-available-for-the-talk-making-a-case-in-Smalltalk-tp4756615p4756899.html
> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
http://www.objectprofile.com/Roassal.html

On 4/29/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sean,
>
> thank you for reminding us about the general background.
>
> Regarding a specific topic, what about this
>
> Roassal in Amber running over Amber 0.12
> https://github.com/pestefo/roamber12
>
> ?
>
> Three months old, needs to be upgraded too 0.12.4
>
> --Hannes
>
> On 4/29/14, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> sebastianconcept wrote
>>> Can you elaborate on the real blue plane idea Sean?
>>
>> If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit
>> in
>> everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the
>> technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If you
>> go
>> back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the
>> vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks
>> like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what I
>> want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like
>> something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and CSS
>> (which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js
>> and
>> css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL in
>> Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG),
>> then
>> plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter, with
>> it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal
>> with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct
>> universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In
>> Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down
>> and
>> make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec,
>> which
>> hides the live objects under layers of
>> hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite
>> examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC
>> Browser
>> always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under
>> which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new repository"
>> button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and
>> submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was
>> hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form?
>> How
>> do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without
>> leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.
>>
>> [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
>> [2]
>> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
>> [3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI
>> Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how
>> to
>> layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs
>> themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then reify
>> *that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to
>> implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs:
>> #MyCoolMorphSubclass".
>>
>> HTH :)
>>
>>
>> sebastianconcept wrote
>>> Also need reference on what LK is?
>>
>> Sorry for the abbreviation - it's Lively Kernel.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://forum.world.st/Slides-available-for-the-talk-making-a-case-in-Smalltalk-tp4756615p4756899.html
>> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [hidden email].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
The DSL seems to be quite OK.
http://www.objectprofile.com/MapBuilder.html

On 4/29/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://www.objectprofile.com/Roassal.html
>
> On 4/29/14, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sean,
>>
>> thank you for reminding us about the general background.
>>
>> Regarding a specific topic, what about this
>>
>> Roassal in Amber running over Amber 0.12
>> https://github.com/pestefo/roamber12
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Three months old, needs to be upgraded too 0.12.4
>>
>> --Hannes
>>
>> On 4/29/14, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> sebastianconcept wrote
>>>> Can you elaborate on the real blue plane idea Sean?
>>>
>>> If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit
>>> in
>>> everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the
>>> technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If
>>> you
>>> go
>>> back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the
>>> vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks
>>> like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what
>>> I
>>> want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like
>>> something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and
>>> CSS
>>> (which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js
>>> and
>>> css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL
>>> in
>>> Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG),
>>> then
>>> plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter,
>>> with
>>> it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal
>>> with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct
>>> universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In
>>> Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down
>>> and
>>> make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec,
>>> which
>>> hides the live objects under layers of
>>> hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite
>>> examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC
>>> Browser
>>> always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under
>>> which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new
>>> repository"
>>> button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and
>>> submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was
>>> hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form?
>>> How
>>> do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without
>>> leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
>>> [2]
>>> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
>>> [3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI
>>> Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how
>>> to
>>> layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs
>>> themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then
>>> reify
>>> *that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to
>>> implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs:
>>> #MyCoolMorphSubclass".
>>>
>>> HTH :)
>>>
>>>
>>> sebastianconcept wrote
>>>> Also need reference on what LK is?
>>>
>>> Sorry for the abbreviation - it's Lively Kernel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sean
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://forum.world.st/Slides-available-for-the-talk-making-a-case-in-Smalltalk-tp4756615p4756899.html
>>> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> "amber-lang" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an
>>> email to [hidden email].
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept
In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris
Hi Sean, thanks for taking the time and frame this idea.

It’s really inspiring. If you have a blog, I encourage you to publish this. You would have at least one guy referencing it.

In the eye of my mind there is nothing conceptually better than Self.

With the right UI, Self can achieve what no programming language could: becoming pre-cognitive.

I’m confident that in the future the industry will reinvent some kind of Self with term UI and graphic UI.

For that to happen we need more people like us deeply involved with designers in places like Silicon Valley which I doubt is happening now.

Saving distances we experienced the principle in action with a feature in my product, I’ve wrote about it here:

And we call it Duplicating and Hacking, is everything the school told you not to do but humanity works that way. 

Is even more intuitive than the concept of templates.

Everybody has a pre-cognitive impulse of taking what’s done by someone else and was already battle tested, duplicate it, make it its own and customise it for its own new purpose.

With proud!

If you think on that, it’s anthropologic. It’s how stories and culture gets passed one generation to the next.

Is how legends are built.

A computer model that fits into that, with the right interfaces has a lot to be a winner


On Apr 28, 2014, at 11:36 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit in
everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the
technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If you go
back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the
vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks
like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what I
want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like
something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and CSS
(which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js and
css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL in
Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG), then
plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter, with
it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal
with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct
universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In
Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down and
make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec, which
hides the live objects under layers of
hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite
examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC Browser
always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under
which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new repository"
button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and
submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was
hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form? How
do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without
leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.

[1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
[2]
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
[3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI
Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how to
layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs
themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then reify
*that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to
implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs:
#MyCoolMorphSubclass".

HTH :)

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

Hannes Hirzel
Hello Sebastian

Thank you for bringing  the idea of copy / customize into the discussion.

      blog.flowingconcept.com/brandIt/duplicating-and-hacking

BTW that is the JavaScript object approach.
You take an object, duplicate it and customize it.

We can apply this as well to Amber projects -- different "kick start"
projects which people copy and adapt to their needs.

Regards
Hannes

On 4/29/14, sebastian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sean, thanks for taking the time and frame this idea.
>
> It's really inspiring. If you have a blog, I encourage you to publish this.
> You would have at least one guy referencing it.
>
> In the eye of my mind there is nothing conceptually better than Self.
>
> With the right UI, Self can achieve what no programming language could:
> becoming pre-cognitive.
>
> I'm confident that in the future the industry will reinvent some kind of
> Self with term UI and graphic UI.
>
> For that to happen we need more people like us deeply involved with
> designers in places like Silicon Valley which I doubt is happening now.
>
> Saving distances we experienced the principle in action with a feature in my
> product, I've wrote about it here:
> http://blog.flowingconcept.com/brandIt/duplicating-and-hacking
>
> And we call it Duplicating and Hacking, is everything the school told you
> not to do but humanity works that way.
>
> Is even more intuitive than the concept of templates.
>
> Everybody has a pre-cognitive impulse of taking what's done by someone else
> and was already battle tested, duplicate it, make it its own and customise
> it for its own new purpose.
>
> With proud!
>
> If you think on that, it's anthropologic. It's how stories and culture gets
> passed one generation to the next.
>
> Is how legends are built.
>
> A computer model that fits into that, with the right interfaces has a lot to
> be a winner
>
> sebastian
>
> o/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2014, at 11:36 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> If the dynabook is "to provide computer support for the creative spirit
>> in
>> everyone" [1], one key thing is to reduce the cognitive burden of the
>> technology so that there is enough mental RAM left over to create. If you
>> go
>> back to the original intentions of Morphic from the Self world [2], the
>> vision was - find an object (notice, it's not "find a class") that looks
>> like/behaves like I want, copy it, and then tweak it until it does what I
>> want it to do. This is totally lost in - find something that looks like
>> something I want (e.g. bootstrap), then save and edit as raw HTML and CSS
>> (which might take a bit of investigation into where all the necessary js
>> and
>> css files live), then partially automate and abstract those with a DSL in
>> Smalltalk (which is clearly more efficient but a far cry from WYSIWYG),
>> then
>> plug into a web framework like Amber or Seaside or both. The latter, with
>> it's non-WYSIWYG run-compile like cycle, and myriad technologies to deal
>> with, is more like programming with punch cards than the live, direct
>> universe hinted at by Self, Sketchpad, Squeak/Pharo, and Croquet. In
>> Morphic, if the browser doesn't work the way I want, I can  drill down
>> and
>> make it so (theoretically, this is becoming less true with e.g. Spec,
>> which
>> hides the live objects under layers of
>> hopefully-cross-ui-platform-compatibility [3]). One of my first favorite
>> examples of using Pharo was that creating a new repository in the MC
>> Browser
>> always started with IIRC the image directory, and I have a folder under
>> which all my local repos live. I brought up halos on the "new repository"
>> button, then on the Settings browser, connected the two together, and
>> submitted the fix in a few minutes with 0 context switches... and I was
>> hooked on Smalltalk. How do I do that with a cool Bootstrap login form?
>> How
>> do I dig in, find the live objects, and bend them to my vision, without
>> leaving my live, dynamic system? I would love to live in that world.
>>
>> [1] http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltalk.html
>> [2]
>> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.600&rep=rep1&type=pdf
>> [3] One of the funny (or sad) thing is that people keep developing UI
>> Builders for Morphic - that's what Morphic *is*. The question isn't how
>> to
>> layer tool-centric crap on top, but how to directly play with the Morphs
>> themselves (remember flaps?) until you have what you want, and then reify
>> *that*. It wouldn't be so hard (at least for geometry and layout) to
>> implement "aMorphThatIBuiltViaDirectManipulation reifyAs:
>> #MyCoolMorphSubclass".
>>
>> HTH :)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [hidden email].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: Slides available for the talk making a case in Smalltalk

sebastianconcept

On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:01 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Sebastian

Thank you for bringing  the idea of copy / customize into the discussion.

     blog.flowingconcept.com/brandIt/duplicating-and-hacking

BTW that is the JavaScript object approach.
You take an object, duplicate it and customize it.

We can apply this as well to Amber projects -- different "kick start"
projects which people copy and adapt to their needs.

Sure!

Inside the code, the Amber apps have a great opportunity in leveraging the power of that concept too

Outside? Well… forking in github is the best compliment  :)


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