Smalltalk › Squeak › Squeak - Dev

Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

_‹ Previous Topic Next Topic _›

Classic

List

Threaded

35 messages Options

Chris Muller-3

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 1:01 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> StackMorph initializion causes a DNU in Objects tool Presentation category.
>
> :-(
>
> I don't really understand why this does not work now, what can have changed
> with this tool lately ??

Its after running the tests I think... Before running tests I think its fine.

Chris Muller-3

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Herbert König

> I noticed some glitches:
> When I use list filtering for the instvars in an inspector the list doesn't
> automatically return to normal.
> Maybe a preference I missed.

Preference is "Filterable Lists Clear Automatically". Looks like it
was conciously decided to set that off for this release.

> When I play with that list filtering at some point the CPU goes up to 90%
> and does not return until I shut down the image.

How to reproduce?

> The right click (personal) World menu has lost the entry to disable the main
> docking bar. I disabled it via preferences.

This is due to #generalizedYellowButtonMenu. I'll set it explicitly
in the release builder.

> Otherwise it survived the first hour :-))

Thanks for the report!

Karl Ramberg

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3

Disable project saving from menus until we can make it work again.

You probably have to do a "Rebuild menus" from Extras menu in the Docking bar

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

I managed to successfully incorporate the ARM platform into the 5.0
All-In-One -- so Squeak 5 will now start up with one-click on FOUR
platforms, OOTB..!!

I'm thankful to this community for collaborating to produce and shake
out the 4.6 release. As this is a special dual release, your help is
needed one more time to help shake out this 5.0 release. Would you
please download this latest Squeak-5.0-All-in-One and check it out?
We still have a chance to avoid obvious bugs, but we want to keep it
as close to the 4.6 release as possible.

http://ftp.squeak.org/5.0/Squeak-5.0-All-in-One.zip

Here are some things I've noticed already, but I need your help to
figure out how to deal with them:

- someone said the VM is crashing in the Jenkins build due to
ImageSegments tests. Do we want to disable those tests?

- Actually, when I ran the tests in the image, there was no VM
crash, but the dialog, "Running all tests might take a some minutes"
(<--- hey that's some nice grammar there Marcel! ;-) ) appeared
TWICE. When I clicked "Yes" the first time they ran, "Yes" a second
time, no effect. Just a strange UI bug..?

- Look at the image size, its DOUBLE the size of the 4.6 image. Why?

I'm getting excited, thank you!!
Chris

DisableProjectSaving.1.cs (9K) Download Attachment

Chris Muller-3

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

I believe every reproducible issue in this thread is addressed except
the following:

I wrote:
> someone said the VM is crashing in the Jenkins build due to
> ImageSegments tests. Do we want to disable those tests?

No tests were disabled. Are we ok?

> - Look at the image size, its DOUBLE the size of the 4.6 image. Why?

The top 10 consumers of space are essentially the same in 4.6 and 5.0.
So the extra space consumption must be something related to Spur
internals.

Herbert wrote:
> When I use list filtering for the instvars in an inspector the list doesn't
> automatically return to normal. Maybe a preference I missed.

Marcel (un)set this as the new default for this release. "Filterable
Lists Clear Automatically".

Karl wrote:
> It seems control and alt keys are not swapped so out of the box you have to
> use alt+c to copy text on Windows.

This is how it was in 4.6 and even 4.5. Won't change this for 5.0 at
this point.

=======

I just uploaded a new 5.0 All-in-One with all the other issues addressed.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:33 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Disable project saving from menus until we can make it work again.
>
> You probably have to do a "Rebuild menus" from Extras menu in the Docking
> bar
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I managed to successfully incorporate the ARM platform into the 5.0
>> All-In-One -- so Squeak 5 will now start up with one-click on FOUR
>> platforms, OOTB..!!
>>
>> I'm thankful to this community for collaborating to produce and shake
>> out the 4.6 release. As this is a special dual release, your help is
>> needed one more time to help shake out this 5.0 release. Would you
>> please download this latest Squeak-5.0-All-in-One and check it out?
>> We still have a chance to avoid obvious bugs, but we want to keep it
>> as close to the 4.6 release as possible.
>>
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/5.0/Squeak-5.0-All-in-One.zip
>>
>> Here are some things I've noticed already, but I need your help to
>> figure out how to deal with them:
>>
>> - someone said the VM is crashing in the Jenkins build due to
>> ImageSegments tests. Do we want to disable those tests?
>>
>> - Actually, when I ran the tests in the image, there was no VM
>> crash, but the dialog, "Running all tests might take a some minutes"
>> (<--- hey that's some nice grammar there Marcel! ;-) ) appeared
>> TWICE. When I clicked "Yes" the first time they ran, "Yes" a second
>> time, no effect. Just a strange UI bug..?
>>
>> - Look at the image size, its DOUBLE the size of the 4.6 image. Why?
>>
>> I'm getting excited, thank you!!
>> Chris
>>
>
>
>
>

Stéphane Rollandin

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

Just a question:

On Windows both all-in-one VMs have the effect of preference
swapMouseButtons inverted with regard to what I'm used to: when turned
off the yellow button is the middle one while I would expect it to be
the right one, as it is in my current VM. Both VMs say they are a Cog VM
4.5 from july 6, 2015.

Is it a new convention, or am I missing something ?

Stef

Karl Ramberg

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

It is probably a VM configuration.

In the Squeak.ini file set 3ButtonMouse to 1 or 0 depending on your what it is currently.

Karl

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just a question:

On Windows both all-in-one VMs have the effect of preference swapMouseButtons inverted with regard to what I'm used to: when turned off the yellow button is the middle one while I would expect it to be the right one, as it is in my current VM. Both VMs say they are a Cog VM 4.5 from july 6, 2015.

Is it a new convention, or am I missing something ?

Stef

Stéphane Rollandin

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

> In the Squeak.ini file set 3ButtonMouse to 1 or 0 depending on your what
> it is currently.

Ah, that's it. Thanks !

Stef

Levente Uzonyi-2

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by timrowledge

You may be right, the average size of the object headers might also
have become a bit larger (from <8 to 8). But if you check the images on
Eliot's site[1], you'll find that the growth is not related to the 5.0
release, because all Spur images are larger than the pre-Spur images.

Levente

[1] http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/SpurImages/

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015, tim Rowledge wrote:

>
> On 23-07-2015, at 2:43 PM, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I think it's related to the segmented memory model of Spur, which uses more memmory than the the compact model of pre-Spur Squeak.
> Highly unlikely to make for a 16Mb -> 35Mb jump.
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> If you don't pay the exorcist do you get repossessed?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Chris Muller-3

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin

Hi Stéphane, no, 3ButtonMouse should always be 1, else right-click
won't work. The 5.0-All-in-One I just uploaded today has the 4.6
preferences restored, so your usual right click should work as you
expect. The one you tested which had swapMouseButtons unset was from
yesterday, its now fixed in today's.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Stéphane Rollandin
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In the Squeak.ini file set 3ButtonMouse to 1 or 0 depending on your what
>> it is currently.
>
>
> Ah, that's it. Thanks !
>
> Stef
>
>

Herbert König

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3

Thanks for the pointers.

Am 24.07.2015 um 17:31 schrieb Chris Muller:
>> When I play with that list filtering at some point the CPU goes up to 90%
>> and does not return until I shut down the image.
> How to reproduce?
>
>
By now I think the high CPU has nothing to do with list filtering but
either with the new inspector or with not enough Umph of the Pi.

To reproduce, file in the attached class, from a Browser get a sample
instance.

In that inspector click on "all inst vars". Maybe I have too many too
big arrays but it hasn't returned from 96% CPU since a quarter of an hour.

With that knowledge I checked the same in a 4.5 Image running on the VM
that comes with the Pi. It shows the same problem.

So it's not a 5.0 or 4.6 issue. Sorry for the noise.

OTOH on my Windows laptop the same test is instantaneous. Which means it
is over a Factor 1000 slower on the ARM V6. I seem to remember the Pi
being a factor of 70 slower than this laptop.

Cheers,

Herbert

PictureCompare.st (5K) Download Attachment

timrowledge

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

On 24-07-2015, at 12:50 PM, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In that inspector click on "all inst vars". Maybe I have too many too big arrays but it hasn't returned from 96% CPU since a quarter of an hour.

One of the things that can really damage performance on the Pi is letting memory grow so big it starts virtual memory thrashing. Generating the entire list of entries for an inspector can really blow things up very effectively.

On a 4.5 based system you might try adding ‘-memory 128M’ as a vm option. For the 5.0 spur system the best equivalent is ‘-maxoldspace 128M’. I found this helped keep memroy from growing too much and that helps gcs and assorted scanning code work better.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Oxymorons: Found missing

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Herbert König

Hi Herbert,

first., apologies fror being unresponsive. I've had things to do for the last few days.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey, great!

downloaded it on the Pi A+ installed my trusty 24/7 cat surveillance app and it worked.
CPU usage went down from 50 to 40%. It exercises BitBlt, Collections, file I/O incl. GPIO, OSProcess and CommandShell
Memory went up from 52M to 75M which is critical as I use the PiNoir Camera.

So there's two things going on here. One is that the object format is indeed less compact tan the previous one and Spur image files are about 15% larger, so a 57Mb image file should result in something around 65Mb. Another is that right now I've chosen to have the memory manager allocate a chunk of free space at startup that defaults to the growHeadroom, which defaults to 16Mb. You can see what the free old space is via vm parameter 54, e.g.

Smalltalk vmParameterAt: 54 22689208

You can change this by the command line switch -maxoldspace. Really I think there needs to be a way of a) specifying a free headroom on the command line, and b) setting a grow size in the image header, rather than from Smalltalk code.

Basically Spur is very green and we need to evolve its facilities for management of memory management. So please feel free to make suggestions and requests for functionality here, but especially on vm-dev. We could do with careful discussions here as I don't want to hack, but I'm not pretending to have the right answers.

I'll watch what comes out of Tim's (Rowledge) recent post.

And I'll watch if it runs as stable as 4.5.

Thanks,

Herbert

Am 23.07.2015 um 17:55 schrieb Chris Muller:

I managed to successfully incorporate the ARM platform into the 5.0
All-In-One -- so Squeak 5 will now start up with one-click on FOUR
platforms, OOTB..!!

_,,,^..^,,,_

best, Eliot

Herbert König

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

Hi Eliot,

I tried with -maxoldspace 60M (after I tied 128M and 64M).

I learned that I have to put some parameters into "" but have to add -maxoldspace without "" otherwise the VM complains it doesn't understand that parameter. Maybe there is still something wrong because now "Abut this System" shows two VM parameters, maxoldspace and 64M.

Also the high CPU usage in the Inspector on all inst vars does not go away.

Anyway the main problem is me running the A+ were I could have used my B+ with twice as much RAM but a bit less power consumption. All was fine until I switched from 640x480 camera resolution to 1296x972. But the new VM allowed to keep the framerate at a slightly higher CPU load. We had a very windy day and night so the motion detection was very busy.

But it runs stable for over 24 hours now under heaviest load ever so I'm really happy with it.

If I have suggestions for the VM I'll go to VM dev.

Thanks,

Herbert

Am 24.07.2015 um 22:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda:

Hi Herbert,

first., apologies fror being unresponsive. I've had things to do for the last few days.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hey, great!

downloaded it on the Pi A+ installed my trusty 24/7 cat surveillance app and it worked.
CPU usage went down from 50 to 40%. It exercises BitBlt, Collections, file I/O incl. GPIO, OSProcess and CommandShell
Memory went up from 52M to 75M which is critical as I use the PiNoir Camera.

So there's two things going on here. One is that the object format is indeed less compact tan the previous one and Spur image files are about 15% larger, so a 57Mb image file should result in something around 65Mb. Another is that right now I've chosen to have the memory manager allocate a chunk of free space at startup that defaults to the growHeadroom, which defaults to 16Mb. You can see what the free old space is via vm parameter 54, e.g.

Smalltalk vmParameterAt: 54 22689208

You can change this by the command line switch -maxoldspace. Really I think there needs to be a way of a) specifying a free headroom on the command line, and b) setting a grow size in the image header, rather than from Smalltalk code.

Basically Spur is very green and we need to evolve its facilities for management of memory management. So please feel free to make suggestions and requests for functionality here, but especially on vm-dev. We could do with careful discussions here as I don't want to hack, but I'm not pretending to have the right answers.

I'll watch what comes out of Tim's (Rowledge) recent post.

And I'll watch if it runs as stable as 4.5.

Thanks,

Herbert

Am 23.07.2015 um 17:55 schrieb Chris Muller:

I managed to successfully incorporate the ARM platform into the 5.0
All-In-One -- so Squeak 5 will now start up with one-click on FOUR
platforms, OOTB..!!

--

_,,,^..^,,,_

best, Eliot

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3

On 24.07.2015, at 18:22, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

I just uploaded a new 5.0 All-in-One with all the other issues addressed.

I have not tried previous 5.0 All-in-Ones. The one downloaded today gives me this on OS X:

Not even the usual right-click-to-open works. I have to disable Gatekeeper system-wide. Not sure why that is.

With disabled gatekeeper it still does not open the default image. That’s because the Info.plist still refers to 4.6:

<key>SqueakImageName</key>
<string>Squeak4.6-15102.image</string>

After fixing the Info.plist, the VM exits immediately, with this error:

This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521).

Apparently the 5.0 All-in-One does not include a Spur VM for Mac?

- Bert -

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Chris Muller-3

Re: Squeak 5 will run on Rasberry Pi OOTB

That's correct, because we still don't know what the final verdict is w.r.t. the SqueakSSL plugin. Eliot said he was going to try to get the plugin maintainer to merge some code that would make it know about default depths to look for Fowarders when there is a primitive failure -- something needed for Spur.

I don't know what his status is on that yet, and so we haven't been able to finish the All-in-One to the point of it being ready to ask someone to put in the Mac VM and sign it.

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 24.07.2015, at 18:22, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
I just uploaded a new 5.0 All-in-One with all the other issues addressed.

I have not tried previous 5.0 All-in-Ones. The one downloaded today gives me this on OS X:

Not even the usual right-click-to-open works. I have to disable Gatekeeper system-wide. Not sure why that is.

With disabled gatekeeper it still does not open the default image. That’s because the Info.plist still refers to 4.6:

<key>SqueakImageName</key>
<string>Squeak4.6-15102.image</string>

After fixing the Info.plist, the VM exits immediately, with this error:

This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521).

Apparently the 5.0 All-in-One does not include a Spur VM for Mac?

- Bert -