Squeak and Sound
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Hi, I just installed Mint 20.1, which is based on the most recent Ubuntu, on a x86-64 system ran apt install libpulse-dev and then built the VM at the git HEAD, and unlike before sound works perfectly. This is with a 5.3 image. Off to try this on my PI 400... cheers bruce |
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11 January 2021 12:03 "Bruce O'Neel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
which, duh, does not have a headphone jack so that was unsuccessful. |
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
Hi Bruce, Hi squeak.org maintainers, this kind of information is incredibly important for new users who grab squeak and want to get things done. We should make sure there is on squeak.org a "tips and tricks" page, or series of items on the download page that help new users solve these kinds of issues. The last thing we want is for a new user to find themselves blocked and have to go to the mailing list to get help. In that arc from being blocked to asking for help many people may simply give up and we will, I believe, lose users that way. So Bruce, this inf should be in HowToBuild, but all, it should also be on squeak.org, and prominently. On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 3:04 AM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote:
_,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
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Hi, It seems that libpulse-dev only needs to be installed on the build machine. That is quite logical, it is a dev package. It also looks that pulse audio is picked by default, at least on new? linux versions. I am unable to test on the PI. I can't convince it to work with a bluetooth speaker so I guess I need a USB speaker. I also notice that on the newest version of Raspberry PI OS seems not to get all the way through the build though there are no obvious errors. it stops right after the ar of vm.a, and does not do the libtool parts. Both the older PI 3 and the new PI 4 have the same packages installed after the installation but maybe a different base set. I'll look more tomorrow. cheers bruce 11 January 2021 19:11 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
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hi
> On 11. Jan 2021, at 21:36, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > It seems that libpulse-dev only needs to be installed on the build machine. yes > That is quite logical, it is a dev package. It also looks that pulse audio is picked by default, at least on new? linux versions. yes > > I am unable to test on the PI. I can't convince it to work with a bluetooth speaker so I guess I need a USB speaker. > > I also notice that on the newest version of Raspberry PI OS seems not to get all the way through the build though there are no obvious errors. it stops right after the ar of vm.a, and does not do the libtool parts. can you open an issue on github with the error? Best regards -Tobias > Both the older PI 3 and the new PI 4 have the same packages installed after the installation but maybe a different base set. > > I'll look more tomorrow. > > cheers > > bruce > > > 11 January 2021 19:11 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Bruce, Hi squeak.org maintainers, > > this kind of information is incredibly important for new users who grab squeak and want to get things done. We should make sure there is on squeak.org a "tips and tricks" page, or series of items on the download page that help new users solve these kinds of issues. The last thing we want is for a new user to find themselves blocked and have to go to the mailing list to get help. In that arc from being blocked to asking for help many people may simply give up and we will, I believe, lose users that way. > > So Bruce, this inf should be in HowToBuild, but all, it should also be on squeak.org, and prominently. > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 3:04 AM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi, > > I just installed Mint 20.1, which is based on the most recent Ubuntu, on a x86-64 system ran > > apt install libpulse-dev > > and then built the VM at the git HEAD, and unlike before sound works perfectly. This is with a 5.3 image. > > Off to try this on my PI 400... > > cheers > > bruce |
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
> On 2021-01-11, at 3:03 AM, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi, > > I just installed Mint 20.1, which is based on the most recent Ubuntu, on a x86-64 system ran > > apt install libpulse-dev > > and then built the VM at the git HEAD, and unlike before sound works perfectly. This is with a 5.3 image. > > Off to try this on my PI 400... I'll be very interested in your report. Sound on the latest PI OS with pulse works just fine for almost all cases BUT do try the pianokeyboardmorph and zip up and down the keyboard. The short notes with negligible time gap between each and the next seems to really mess things up. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: WDS: Warp Drive, Scotty! |
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
> On 2021-01-11, at 8:00 AM, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Off to try this on my PI 400... > > > > > which, duh, does not have a headphone jack so that was unsuccessful. Can you do a) bluetooth audio (one of the reasons for Pi moving to pulse is apparently better BT audio) b) usb audio c) HDMI audio tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Ignoranus (n): A person who's both stupid and an asshole. |
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
> On 2021-01-11, at 12:36 PM, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > It seems that libpulse-dev only needs to be installed on the build machine. That is quite logical, it is a dev package. It also looks that pulse audio is picked by default, at least on new? linux versions. > > I am unable to test on the PI. I can't convince it to work with a bluetooth speaker so I guess I need a USB speaker. > > I also notice that on the newest version of Raspberry PI OS seems not to get all the way through the build though there are no obvious errors. it stops right after the ar of vm.a, and does not do the libtool parts. Both the older PI 3 and the new PI 4 have the same packages installed after the installation but maybe a different base set. I've had to do 'sudo ./mvm' recently in order to get a completed build. No idea why. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good. |
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Hi, Nope, this was my error. Somehow I skpped the install steps for the GL Development libraries. Once that is done it works fine and I do not need sudo. In my case sudo ./mvm changed things enough that that error shows up. It would be best if we do not have to build using sudo. I get bad clenchy feelings in my stomach with that. cheers bruce 11 January 2021 22:43 tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
Ok so I ran this on Linux Mint 20.1, VM source as of 2021/01/09. Works but little pops. I get the same exact sound behavior on my Mac running Catalina, VM from 2020/11/09 that was prebuilt. In both cases this image is Squeak 5.3 as shipped. I'm not a piano player, but, what I vaguly remember as middle C does not seem to be middle C and the lower third of the keyboard seems silent though probably because the frequency is too low. Starting from the left the third octave C is the first C I can hear. The D next to it I can hear, the E next I randomly hear or not. Hitting it quickly gives clicks. Hitting it and waiting is more sucessful but not 100%. If this an analog system or an organ it would feel that some capacitor was not charging right or the air pressure was low. 11 January 2021 22:28 tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
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> On 2021-01-12, at 1:42 AM, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Ok so I ran this on Linux Mint 20.1, VM source as of 2021/01/09. Works but little pops. This - https://mega.nz/file/7dd3BSJI#WC7LG4oi1WUjnZUGvQB1py3kXk8J-OBm9ASXY7iNnkA - is a wav file created by zooming up and down the scratch keyboard morph (which is essentially the same as the vanilla one) and the samples *created by Squeak* saved before being passed to pulse audio. This one - https://mega.nz/file/LVFxmCAA#Fy8oigSzm3MjJn4BRpxANaSwjid1l757HP7bKSEx7U0 - is the 'same' (but different because I can't replicate the exact same zooming around) from an ALSA setup pi. Notice how similar they sound; no nasty crackling etc. Yet the actual sound I hear on the pulse-pi when the squeak samples are sent to pulse audio is pretty nasty. Clearly something is wrong; it got a bit less wrong with a recent update to the PI OS pulse libraries but nowhere near perfect. > > I get the same exact sound behavior on my Mac running Catalina, VM from 2020/11/09 that was prebuilt. On my Mojave OS iMac the sounds are just fine. > > In both cases this image is Squeak 5.3 as shipped. > > I'm not a piano player, but, what I vaguly remember as middle C does not seem to be middle C and the lower third of the keyboard seems silent though probably because the frequency is too low. The claimed middle C is set to 440Hz, which I'm fairly sure is correct. It sound about right to me when played but I am not a musician. > > Starting from the left the third octave C is the first C I can hear. The D next to it I can hear, the E next I randomly hear or not. Hitting it quickly gives clicks. Hitting it and waiting is more sucessful but not 100%. Seriously weird. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim I'm so skeptical that I'm not sure I'm really a skeptic |
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 19:08, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm not a piano player, but, what I vaguly remember as middle C does not seem to be middle C and the lower third of the keyboard seems silent though probably because the frequency is too low. If true, you're a sixth high. You want A440 to be the A above middle C. C isn't far off 256Hz (though don't use that as a reference!) Cheers, - Peter |
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> On 2021-01-13, at 10:10 AM, Peter Crowther <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 19:08, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I'm not a piano player, but, what I vaguly remember as middle C does not seem to be middle C and the lower third of the keyboard seems silent though probably because the frequency is too low. > > The claimed middle C is set to 440Hz, which I'm fairly sure is correct. It sound about right to me when played but I am not a musician. > > If true, you're a sixth high. You want A440 to be the A above middle C. C isn't far off 256Hz (though don't use that as a reference!) You're right. I did point out I'm not a player... AbstractSound sets middle C to 261.6265Hz, which agrees with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies I guess an interesting question is whether anyone has both an oscilloscope and a Squeak system to compare and validate? tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about. |
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On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:48:30AM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
> > > > On 2021-01-13, at 10:10 AM, Peter Crowther <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 19:08, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > I'm not a piano player, but, what I vaguly remember as middle C does not seem to be middle C and the lower third of the keyboard seems silent though probably because the frequency is too low. > > > > The claimed middle C is set to 440Hz, which I'm fairly sure is correct. It sound about right to me when played but I am not a musician. > > > > If true, you're a sixth high. You want A440 to be the A above middle C. C isn't far off 256Hz (though don't use that as a reference!) > > You're right. I did point out I'm not a player... > > AbstractSound sets middle C to 261.6265Hz, which agrees with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies I guess an interesting question is whether anyone has both an oscilloscope and a Squeak system to compare and validate? > Here is another handy reference: http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html Dave |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
Hi Tim-- > I guess an interesting question is whether anyone has both an > oscilloscope and a Squeak system to compare and validate? Or just open up the waveform in Squeak or a no-cost editor like Audacity, and look at the time between the peaks. -C -- Craig Latta :: research computer scientist Black Page Digital :: Berkeley, California 663137D7940BF5C0AFC :: 1349FB2ADA32C4D5314CE |
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