Squeak on FreeBSD/amd64 - Image Question(s)

Hi,

I wanted to learn Smalltalk and wanted to go for Squeak. My OS is
FreeBSD/amd64. I first wanted to install the FreeBSD Port; however, it
stopped mentioning it was for i386 only and I was running amd64. So I
tried to download the FreeBSD/i386 package from
http://squeak.org/Download/ and installed according to the docs.
However, that Squeak ran into a Trap 6; it seems it was unable to
connect to X11 (I think it's because my X11-Libs are 64-bit only and so
the 32-bit Squeak-X11-so might have run into trouble).

So I decided to do it the hard way and to compile for FreeBSD/amd64 on
my own. I searched for the docs I found on squeak.org and squekvm.org,
and tried to work as closely as possible to this doc:
http://squeakvm.org/unix/. I checked the sources out using Subversion,
configured and compiled. Ran into some Problems with missing
Include-Directories in Makefiles, configured again by adding my local
Include-Dirs, comoiled again, ran into an error that the
ExtendedClipboard's Plugins Makefiles was missing my local Include,
added that manually -- and finally had a seemingly working VM.

However, I now need "the Image" :-(

I found some docs on a "VMMmaker" which can be run by running squeak and
passing it the name of and .image-File. So I did a "find . -name
\*.image -print" in the platforms-Directory of the Sources I checked out
- however, there is no .image-File there :-(

Another doc mentioned to download a "full" Image; however, I only found
"basic" ones?

So, I tried to download

http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic.zip

unzipped that into an empty Directory and ran "squeak
Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic" - and squeak did start, well, it was
complaining about missing sources, so I have to solve that.

However, in the "platforms/unix/misc/" Directory there are some Files
plus Directions that I'd like to adhere, but beeing a complete noob have
no idea how.

So, could somebody please hint me at how to get "the correct" Image for
64bit FreebSD/amd64? Or is the Downloaded one OK? If it is, however,
wouldn't I need a 3.10.5 Image instead of 3.10.2?

Would really be nice if somebody could help me - esp. because it seems
to me that many of the Docs I found are a bit outdated and sent me into
wrong directions I think...

MTIA!
Cheers,
_ralf_

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Hi Ralf,

first of all, congratulations on your achievements! :-)

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Ralf Folkerts<[hidden email]> wrote:
> So I decided to do it the hard way and to compile for FreeBSD/amd64 on my
> own. ... and finally had a seemingly working VM.

Would you be so kind and contribute your step-by-step guide as documentation?

> Another doc mentioned to download a "full" Image; however, I only found
> "basic" ones?

These are essentially full... confusing name, though, agreed.

> http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic.zip

Good choice.

> it was complaining about missing sources, so I have to solve that.

Please download http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/SqueakV39.sources.gz and
put the result of unzipping it next to your image and changes files.
That should solve the problem.

> So, could somebody please hint me at how to get "the correct" Image for
> 64bit FreebSD/amd64? Or is the Downloaded one OK? If it is, however,
> wouldn't I need a 3.10.5 Image instead of 3.10.2?

If the image complains about sources not being found, it's "alive".

There are 64bit images, but AFAIK they're mostly unsupported (I may be
wrong there). They're available from
http://squeakvm.org/squeak64/dist3/ - note, however, that those are
not version 3.10, but 3.8.

> Would really be nice if somebody could help me - esp. because it seems to me
> that many of the Docs I found are a bit outdated and sent me into wrong
> directions I think...

Welcome to the realities of Squeak. Sorry about the sarcasm, but this is it. :-)

My question to you above (about contributing your VM building
experience as documentation) is related to this...

Best,

Michael
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On 29.07.2009, at 16:46, Michael Haupt wrote:

>> So, could somebody please hint me at how to get "the correct" Image  
>> for
>> 64bit FreebSD/amd64? Or is the Downloaded one OK?

It is. Images are cross-platform, you can move them freely between Mac/
Unix/Windows or any other platform.

>> If it is, however,
>> wouldn't I need a 3.10.5 Image instead of 3.10.2?
>
> If the image complains about sources not being found, it's "alive".

VM versions are somewhat independent of image versions, and supposed  
to be backwards-compatible. So you usually want to install the latest  
released VM, and use that to run all kinds of images, even older ones.

> There are 64bit images, but AFAIK they're mostly unsupported (I may be
> wrong there). They're available from
> http://squeakvm.org/squeak64/dist3/ - note, however, that those are
> not version 3.10, but 3.8.


I am not aware of anybody currently using 64 bit images.

- Bert -


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Hi Michael,

thanks for the quick response!

Michael Haupt wrote: I could try to write some kind of short guide. It would become somewhat
FreeBSD-centric, though (but then, Linuxers could update it with their
experiences).

>> Another doc mentioned to download a "full" Image; however, I only found
>> "basic" ones?
>>    
>
> These are essentially full... confusing name, though, agreed.
>
>  

Ahhh... thanks for that Info!

OK, that was the missing bit :D Thanks for the Link... After
Installation of the Sources everything seems to work OK. I tried the
first things from the "Squeak by Example" and the results were as expected.

Yepp, that age of the 64-bit stuff there confused me a bit ;-)

As mentioned, I found some instructions beneath platforms/unix/misc that
don't make the slightest sense for me; I'll quote the first two of them:

"VMM38b4-64bit-image1-ikp.1.cs
VMM38b4-64bit-image2-ikp.1.cs

    Contain image-side support for 64-bit images.  File-in image1
    before image2.

System-Tracing.2.cs

    Contains the SystemTracer64 which writes a copy of the running
    image in 64-bit format.  File-in image1 and image2 before
    System-Tracing. [...]"

However, when the Image "is fine" "as is" it's OK. I doubt I will write
some Smalltalk-App that would require 64 bit


Well, thanks again! I'll try to setup a "clean" Env, go through the
build again and make notes. Will post the result on this list then.

Cheers,
_ralf_

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Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> On 29.07.2009, at 16:46, Michael Haupt wrote:
>
>>> So, could somebody please hint me at how to get "the correct" Image for
>>> 64bit FreebSD/amd64? Or is the Downloaded one OK?
>
> It is. Images are cross-platform, you can move them freely between
> Mac/Unix/Windows or any other platform.

OK, thanks for confirmation.
>
>>> If it is, however,
>>> wouldn't I need a 3.10.5 Image instead of 3.10.2?
>>
>> If the image complains about sources not being found, it's "alive".
>
> VM versions are somewhat independent of image versions, and supposed
> to be backwards-compatible. So you usually want to install the latest
> released VM, and use that to run all kinds of images, even older ones.

While hunting for Info on how to compile squeak I found one Doc
(unfortunately I didn't save it or the URL I found it at) that mentioned
that "the Image" should always be of the same Version as the Sources.
That made me a bit nervous re. using and older Image ;-)
>
>> There are 64bit images, but AFAIK they're mostly unsupported (I may be
>> wrong there). They're available from
>> http://squeakvm.org/squeak64/dist3/ - note, however, that those are
>> not version 3.10, but 3.8.
>
>
> I am not aware of anybody currently using 64 bit images.
>

Thanks! Well, I just replied to Michael Haupt some of the Instructions I
found in platforms/unix/misc with Instructions that didn't make sense to
me -- well, when I don't need a 64 bit Image then I'm happy now (on the
other hand, as there are these Instructions, maybe when/if I become used
to Squeak and get it sementically I might give the 64 bits a try :-)).

Thanks again for confirming that everything should be OK! I'm slightly
confused when something works that, according to the docs (and how I
interpreted these!), should not work but it indeed does (I expect a
crash then any minute and that makes me a bit nervous).

Cheers,
_ralf_


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