I'm a novice programmer, who, at the suggestion of several more
experienced developers, is attempting to get familiar with Smalltalk before moving on to Ruby, to more thoroughly learn and understand the concepts of object-oriented programming. First off, is this worth doing? Second, does anyone have any experience with Stephane Ducasse's 'Learning to Programing with Robots'? The book appears to be aimed at absolute beginners, like myself, who need to cover the conceptual aspects of programming before moving on to different languages. Is it worth buying and studying? 'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who are approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Max Norman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm a novice programmer, who, at the suggestion of several more experienced developers, is attempting to get familiar with Smalltalk before moving on to Ruby, to more thoroughly learn and understand the concepts of object-oriented programming. First off, is this worth doing? I've started learning Smalltalk after two years of professional Ruby programming. Funny, I've learned a lot on Ruby by learning Smalltalk. Now I think that it's easier to understand object-oriented programming with Smalltalk. With Ruby I've learned a lot about meta-programming.
'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who are approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. I have discovered Smalltalk with this book. It's easy to read and I found it useful.
Laurent Laffont. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
In reply to this post by Max Norman
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Max Norman<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm a novice programmer, who, at the suggestion of several more experienced > developers, is attempting to get familiar with Smalltalk before moving on to > Ruby, to more thoroughly learn and understand the concepts of > object-oriented programming. First off, is this worth doing? I think so. Several of the most active presenters at our local Ruby user's group were Smalltalkers first. > > Second, does anyone have any experience with Stephane Ducasse's 'Learning to > Programing with Robots'? The book appears to be aimed at absolute beginners, > like myself, who need to cover the conceptual aspects of programming before > moving on to different languages. Is it worth buying and studying? Steph actually fought for the creation of the beginners list (and is probably reading now). Great book. I've used this book as courseware for people with no programming experience. My two sons (12 and 11) are working through it right now. One of the things I've noticed is without this book, I tend to gloss over programming concepts that are explained carefully (like looping, iteration, when to write a routine, etc.) After that book, I'd recommend - Kent Beck's Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns (not Squeak specific) but very handy for learning idioms. Try reading a pattern a day. Many of them won't make any sense, but eventually they will start to click. - Chamond Liu's Smalltalk, Objects, and Design (written for VA) but great for learning Smalltalk Certainly keep Squeak by Example handy (at least in electronic form) as you learn. > 'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who are > approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
By the way, Steph has fought to get the license released for the
Robots book. So I think it is now available under a creative commons license. Still worth buying, but that is great news for the community going forward. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM, David Mitchell<[hidden email]> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Max Norman<[hidden email]> wrote: >> I'm a novice programmer, who, at the suggestion of several more experienced >> developers, is attempting to get familiar with Smalltalk before moving on to >> Ruby, to more thoroughly learn and understand the concepts of >> object-oriented programming. First off, is this worth doing? > > I think so. Several of the most active presenters at our local Ruby > user's group were Smalltalkers first. > >> >> Second, does anyone have any experience with Stephane Ducasse's 'Learning to >> Programing with Robots'? The book appears to be aimed at absolute beginners, >> like myself, who need to cover the conceptual aspects of programming before >> moving on to different languages. Is it worth buying and studying? > > Steph actually fought for the creation of the beginners list (and is > probably reading now). > > Great book. I've used this book as courseware for people with no > programming experience. My two sons (12 and 11) are working through it > right now. One of the things I've noticed is without this book, I tend > to gloss over programming concepts that are explained carefully (like > looping, iteration, when to write a routine, etc.) > > After that book, I'd recommend > > - Kent Beck's Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns (not Squeak specific) > but very handy for learning idioms. Try reading a pattern a day. Many > of them won't make any sense, but eventually they will start to click. > - Chamond Liu's Smalltalk, Objects, and Design (written for VA) but > great for learning Smalltalk > > Certainly keep Squeak by Example handy (at least in electronic form) > as you learn. > >> 'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who are >> approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. > Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
In reply to this post by Max Norman
On Thursday 23 Jul 2009 7:24:25 pm Max Norman wrote:
> I'm a novice programmer, who, at the suggestion of several more > experienced developers, is attempting to get familiar with Smalltalk > before moving on to Ruby, to more thoroughly learn and understand the > concepts of object-oriented programming. First off, is this worth doing? Yes. The hardest part is grasping the concept behind object and messages. Smalltalk's inspiration is organisms not numerical integrators for guided missiles :-). See an earlier thread http://www.nabble.com/Smalltalk-Data-Structures-and-Algorithms- td24211375.html particularly the quote "each Smalltalk object is a recursion on the entire possibilities of a computer". > 'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who > are approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. I presume you wish to practice programming for the long term. Why not start working in Squeak right away? Smalltalk is a "small" language (only four reserved words!). v3.8 image has a good intro-level slides on Smalltalk. Etoys 4 has such a low barrier that even middle school students start programming in a couple of days time. Subbu _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
>> 'Squeak by Example' appears to be for more experienced programmers, who
>> are approaching Squeak/Smalltalk from a linguistic perspective. > I presume you wish to practice programming for the long term. Why not start > working in Squeak right away? Smalltalk is a "small" language (only four > reserved words!). v3.8 image has a good intro-level slides on Smalltalk. Etoys > 4 has such a low barrier that even middle school students start programming in > a couple of days time. Robots is straight Squeak. Etoys is only covered in an appendix. Focus is on learning programming from the ground up in Smalltalk. Assumes no programming background. Starts with scripts and moves to browser. Again, highly recommend Robots book as a starting point. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
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