Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

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Re: [Esug-list] Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

LawsonEnglish
On 5/17/10 6:08 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
> Radoslav asked yesterday about progress on the issue of Scratch on the iPad, so it's timely to give everyone an update.
>
> I did ask Apple today for an update on the situation and was told:  "We're still pondering the issue"
>
> So I remain positive and wait.
>    
Since APple owns part of the copyright to Squeak, perhaps you could just
point out to them that it doesn't create an exception to their rule.



Lawson

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

LawsonEnglish
In reply to this post by johnmci
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?

http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/


Lawson

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.

The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.

So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...

But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"

Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.

I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.

I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
 
On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:

> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
>
> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
>
>
> Lawson

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Michael Haupt-3
In reply to this post by LawsonEnglish
Hi,

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Lawson English <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/

it *seems* that
(a) embedded scripting is OK without asking for permission,
(b) interpreters are OK if you ask Apple for their consent.

This *might* work ...

Best,

Michael

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Michael Haupt-3
In reply to this post by johnmci
John,

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:43 AM, John M McIntosh
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.

... and thank *you*.

Best,

Michael

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Re: [Esug-list] [squeak-dev] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Noury Bouraqadi-2
In reply to this post by johnmci
Thanks John and Alan for your efforts.

Noury
On 11 juin 2010, at 07:43, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
>
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.
>
> So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...
>
> But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
>
> Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.
>
> I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.
>
> I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
>
> On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
>>
>> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
>>
>>
>> Lawson
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org



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Re: [Esug-list] [squeak-dev] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

SergeStinckwich
In reply to this post by johnmci
Thank you Alan&John for your great job !
I will maybe buy an ipad and i would love to do some Squeak/Pharo
activities in this platform.


On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, John M McIntosh
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
>
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.
>
> So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...
>
> But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
>
> Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.
>
> I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.
>
> I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
>
> On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
>>
>> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
>>
>>
>> Lawson
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org
>
>



--
Serge Stinckwich
UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://doesnotunderstand.org/

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Edgar De Cleene
In reply to this post by johnmci



On 6/11/10 2:43 AM, "John M McIntosh" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
>
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending
> many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the
> importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people
> of all ages.
>
> So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially
> changed, yet...
>
> But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they
> were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to
> discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
>
> Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what
> the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be
> the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages
> for educational purposes on the iPad.
>
> I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient
> and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should
> be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer
> Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments
> for apps on the iPad.
>
> I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next
> week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.

Alan and you John deserves our deep gratitude .
I cross my fingers waiting a iPad VM and Squeak going into it.
Very , very thanks.

Edgar



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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Steve Wessels-2
In reply to this post by johnmci
Wow.  I don't often read an email message that makes my heart race.  
Exciting news, thank you for your extraordinary efforts.

And Alan Kay continues to move the world forward.

- Steve

On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:43 AM, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]
 > wrote:

> Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
>
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay  
> for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at  
> Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach  
> computational theory to people of all ages.
>
> So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has  
> officially changed, yet...
>
> But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App  
> Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with  
> Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple  
> in writing"
>
> Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is  
> working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk &  
> Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's  
> embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the  
> iPad.
>
> I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for  
> being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself,  
> and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes  
> efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing  
> with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.
>
> I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what  
> happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.
>
> On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
>>
>> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
>>
>>
>> Lawson
>
> --
> ===
> ===
> =====================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  
> squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://
> www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===
> ===
> =====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

hilaire
In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3
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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Michael Haupt-3
Hilaire,

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Hilaire Fernandes
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> This really looks ridiculous. Asking Mama the permission...
> Even Microsoft did not go that far. This is unsane.

Apple already has gone this far, only without the written permission
thing ... ever heard of the App Store? ;-)

Best,

Michael

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Bert Freudenberg
In reply to this post by johnmci
On 11.06.2010, at 07:43, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
>
> The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages.
>
> So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet...
>
> But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing"
>
> Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad.
>
> I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad.

Thanks to you, too! :)

> I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet.

Well, the Apple approval would only remove one obstacle. The bigger issue is actually making a suitable touch interface for either Etoys or Scratch. I don't think Alan had these concrete apps in mind, but rather the general ability to run this kind of software.

Case in point: I got Etoys running on the iPad, using John's VM, slightly modified to allow multi-touch etc. Works in Morphic, which always supported multiple hands. But while it does work, it sill feels like a desktop app. Plus it drains the battery so fast it's not funny.

We're going to have to work on that eventually, though the main motivation would be the planned OLPC tablet.

- Bert -

> On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
>>
>> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/
>>
>>
>> Lawson
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

garduino
In reply to this post by hilaire
2010/6/11 Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]>:
> This really looks ridiculous. Asking Mama the permission...
> Even Microsoft did not go that far. This is unsane.
>
> Developer could play with the market and talk/use open alternative.
>

BIG +1

1234