A new version of Morphic was added to project The Inbox:
http://source.squeak.org/inbox/Morphic-hjh.434.mcz ==================== Summary ==================== Name: Morphic-hjh.434 Author: hjh Time: 3 May 2010, 8:55:59.858 am UUID: f2b5c0e3-82a5-4f44-9f98-d5909bfe6a9a Ancestors: Morphic-mha.433 The HelpSystem has been moved to the trunk. So there is no need for code to load it in the 'Extending the System' workspace. Added two lines to load the Regex and SplitJoin package. Hannes Hirzel =============== Diff against Morphic-mha.433 =============== Item was changed: ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>extendingTheSystem (in category 'submenu - help') ----- extendingTheSystem ^'"Note: Please edit this workspace and add your own contributions. To submit it to the inbox open the Monticello browser and submit it from there. Save the package ''Morphic-Kernel'' to the inbox." "Updating your system: The following will set the default update URL to receive development updates. For developers and dare-devils only." MCMcmUpdater defaultUpdateURL: ''http://source.squeak.org/trunk''. "Installing new packages: The following expression show how to load many interesting packages into Squeak." "FFI: http://source.squeak.org/FFI.html" (Installer repository: ''http://source.squeak.org/FFI'') install: ''FFI-Pools''; install: ''FFI-Kernel''; install: ''FFI-Tests''; install: ''FFI-Win32''; install: ''FFI-MacOS''; install: ''FFI-Unix''. - "HelpSystem: http://www.squeaksource.com/HelpSystem.html" - (Installer squeaksource project: ''HelpSystem'') - install: ''HelpSystem-Core''; - install: ''HelpSystem-Tests''; - install: ''Metacello-Help''; - install: ''Pharo-Project-Help''; - install: ''Squeak-Project-Help''. - (Smalltalk at: #HelpBrowser) open. + "Regular expressions" + (Installer ss project: ''Regex'') install: ''VB-Regex''. + (Installer ss project: ''SplitJoin'') install: ''SplitJoin''. + + "Omnibrowser" (Installer wiresong project: ''ob'') install: ''OmniBrowser''; install: ''OB-Morphic''; install: ''OB-Standard''; install: ''OB-Shout''; install: ''OB-SUnitIntegration''. "Refactoring engine and OB integration" (Installer ss project: ''rb'') install: ''AST''; install: ''Refactoring-Core''; install: ''Refactoring-Spelling''; project: ''Regex''; install: ''VB-Regex''. (Installer wiresong project: ''ob'') install: ''OB-Refactory''; install: ''OB-Regex''. "Seaside 2.8 http://www.seaside.st" (Installer ss project: ''MetacelloRepository'') install: ''ConfigurationOfSeaside28''. "WAKom startOn: 9090" "Seaside 2.8 Examples http://www.seaside.st" (Installer ss project: ''MetacelloRepository'') install: ''ConfigurationOfSeaside28Examples''. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside28Examples) load. "Seaside 3.0 http://www.seaside.st" (Installer ss project: ''MetacelloRepository'') install: ''ConfigurationOfSeaside30''. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSeaside30) load. (Smalltalk at: #WASqueakServerAdaptorBrowser) open. "Pier CMS: http://www.piercms.com" (Installer ss project: ''MetacelloRepository'') install: ''ConfigurationOfPier2''. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPier2) load. (Installer lukas project: ''pier2'') install: ''Pier-Blog''. (Installer lukas project: ''pier2'') install: ''Pier-Book''. (Installer lukas project: ''pier2addons'') install: ''Pier-Setup''. 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2010/5/3 <[hidden email]>:
> A new version of Morphic was added to project The Inbox: > http://source.squeak.org/inbox/Morphic-hjh.434.mcz > > ==================== Summary ==================== > > Name: Morphic-hjh.434 > Author: hjh > Time: 3 May 2010, 8:55:59.858 am > UUID: f2b5c0e3-82a5-4f44-9f98-d5909bfe6a9a > Ancestors: Morphic-mha.433 > > The HelpSystem has been moved to the trunk. So there is no need for code to load it in the 'Extending the System' workspace. > > Added two lines to load the Regex and SplitJoin package. > > Hannes Hirzel Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. Ian. -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
Yes, that's an idea. However if I have the code snippet easily
available in the 'Extending the System' workspace, then that's fine for me the time being. In fact I consider the Regex package to be a bit weak in terms of functionality but I think we do not have anything more comprehensive. It is easy for me to install a new image, run the updates and then execute a few more statements to configure the image for a particular purpose. --Hannes On 5/3/10, Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> wrote: > 2010/5/3 <[hidden email]>: >> A new version of Morphic was added to project The Inbox: >> http://source.squeak.org/inbox/Morphic-hjh.434.mcz >> >> ==================== Summary ==================== >> >> Name: Morphic-hjh.434 >> Author: hjh >> Time: 3 May 2010, 8:55:59.858 am >> UUID: f2b5c0e3-82a5-4f44-9f98-d5909bfe6a9a >> Ancestors: Morphic-mha.433 >> >> The HelpSystem has been moved to the trunk. So there is no need for code >> to load it in the 'Extending the System' workspace. >> >> Added two lines to load the Regex and SplitJoin package. >> >> Hannes Hirzel > > Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in > my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a > lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming > languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. > > Ian. > -- > http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ > > |
On 04.05.2010, at 03:58, Hannes Hirzel wrote:
> Yes, that's an idea. However if I have the code snippet easily > available in the 'Extending the System' workspace, then that's fine > for me the time being. > > In fact I consider the Regex package to be a bit weak in terms of > functionality but I think we do not have anything more comprehensive. > > It is easy for me to install a new image, run the updates and then > execute a few more statements to configure the image for a particular > purpose. > > --Hannes > > On 5/3/10, Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in >> my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a >> lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming >> languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. >> >> Ian. >> -- >> http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ Seems to be a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with a release but not be loaded by default? - Bert - |
Bert,
Yes, this is a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with a release but not loaded by default. So for me a load script in the 'Extending the System' workspace is fine for now. Or you think of another way of bundeling? --Hannes On 5/4/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 04.05.2010, at 03:58, Hannes Hirzel wrote: >> Yes, that's an idea. However if I have the code snippet easily >> available in the 'Extending the System' workspace, then that's fine >> for me the time being. >> >> In fact I consider the Regex package to be a bit weak in terms of >> functionality but I think we do not have anything more comprehensive. >> >> It is easy for me to install a new image, run the updates and then >> execute a few more statements to configure the image for a particular >> purpose. >> >> --Hannes >> >> On 5/3/10, Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in >>> my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a >>> lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming >>> languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. >>> >>> Ian. >>> -- >>> http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ > > > Seems to be a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with a > release but not be loaded by default? > > - Bert - > > > > > |
Well, we talked about this before but have no concrete plan quite yet - some packages should be bundled with (and considered to part of) the release. They would not have to be downloaded from the network.
- Bert - On 04.05.2010, at 07:54, Hannes Hirzel wrote: > > Bert, > Yes, this is a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with > a release but not loaded by default. > > So for me a load script in the 'Extending the System' workspace is > fine for now. Or you think of another way of bundeling? > > --Hannes > > On 5/4/10, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On 04.05.2010, at 03:58, Hannes Hirzel wrote: >>> Yes, that's an idea. However if I have the code snippet easily >>> available in the 'Extending the System' workspace, then that's fine >>> for me the time being. >>> >>> In fact I consider the Regex package to be a bit weak in terms of >>> functionality but I think we do not have anything more comprehensive. >>> >>> It is easy for me to install a new image, run the updates and then >>> execute a few more statements to configure the image for a particular >>> purpose. >>> >>> --Hannes >>> >>> On 5/3/10, Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in >>>> my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a >>>> lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming >>>> languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. >>>> >>>> Ian. >>>> -- >>>> http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> Seems to be a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with a >> release but not be loaded by default? >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> >> >> > |
dear all,
with all due respect, I fail to see the value of having the regexp package *not* loaded in the release. I'd rather unload it when I don't want it. Thanks, Wolfgang Eder On 04.05.2010 17:10, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > Well, we talked about this before but have no concrete plan quite yet - some packages should be bundled with (and considered to part of) the release. They would not have to be downloaded from the network. > > - Bert - > > On 04.05.2010, at 07:54, Hannes Hirzel wrote: |
Because there might be some issues not yet resolved with maintenance
See http://www.squeaksource.com/Regex NB. For Pharo users, this package is maintained as part of the core images. For Squeak users, the Pharo repositories might have recent snapshots that weren't actively tested on other branches of Squeak (yet). Wolfgang, would it be possible that you could have a look at this issue? (It would involve some searching in the Pharo list and maybe contacting a few persons involved in this and then come up with a recommendation. And doing some tests. I currently can't open another thread in my Squeak activities. But I would be an interested 'customer' of this effort. --Hannes On 5/4/10, Wolfgang Eder <[hidden email]> wrote: > dear all, > with all due respect, I fail to see the value > of having the regexp package *not* loaded in the release. > I'd rather unload it when I don't want it. > Thanks, > Wolfgang Eder > > > On 04.05.2010 17:10, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> Well, we talked about this before but have no concrete plan quite yet - >> some packages should be bundled with (and considered to part of) the >> release. They would not have to be downloaded from the network. >> >> - Bert - >> >> On 04.05.2010, at 07:54, Hannes Hirzel wrote: > > > |
hannes,
i'm sorry but i don't have sufficient spare time for this issue. thx wolfgang On 04.05.2010 18:13, Hannes Hirzel wrote: > Because there might be some issues not yet resolved with maintenance > > See > http://www.squeaksource.com/Regex > NB. For Pharo users, this package is maintained as part of the core > images. For Squeak users, the Pharo repositories might have recent > snapshots that weren't actively tested on other branches of Squeak > (yet). > > Wolfgang, would it be possible that you could have a look at this > issue? (It would involve some searching in the Pharo list and maybe > contacting a few persons involved in this and then come up with a > recommendation. And doing some tests. I currently can't open another > thread in my Squeak activities. But I would be an interested > 'customer' of this effort. > > --Hannes > > On 5/4/10, Wolfgang Eder<[hidden email]> wrote: >> dear all, >> with all due respect, I fail to see the value >> of having the regexp package *not* loaded in the release. >> I'd rather unload it when I don't want it. >> Thanks, >> Wolfgang Eder >> >> >> On 04.05.2010 17:10, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>> Well, we talked about this before but have no concrete plan quite yet - >>> some packages should be bundled with (and considered to part of) the >>> release. They would not have to be downloaded from the network. >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> On 04.05.2010, at 07:54, Hannes Hirzel wrote: >> >> >> > > |
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
+1
Having a regexp engine in a known good state that jives with your release build is going to be key to grabbing mindshare from the likes of Ruby IMHO. When I was first looking at Squeak, one of my first questions was "how do I do regular expressions?" When the answer turned out to be "Go find a version of this package that works with this release and figure out how to install it" I nearly wrote Squeak off and went on to download a Haskell compiler instead.
While I'd expect a regexp engine to be unloadable via #unloadAllKnownPackages, (hence not present in a "core" image,) I would even go so far as to say that we should probably be shipping it (and testing it) with the "standard" image.
</2cents> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: On 04.05.2010, at 03:58, Hannes Hirzel wrote: -- Casey Ransberger |
The problem with having stuff in the image by default is that it gets used ;) Once it is used all over the place you cannot unload it anymore. We have no good way of preventing such "misuse". If we take it into the image, we would basically have to say that it is now a core feature. Which may or may not be a good idea. - Bert - On 04.05.2010, at 12:56, Casey Ransberger wrote: +1 |
I don't have a strong opinion about inclusion of regexp into a
standard image but unless it's really big, would inability to unload it be much of an issue? I suppose if something gets "used" then, by definition, it provided a combination of utility and accessibility was good enough for someone to give it a purpose, is that bad? It also sounds like it can offer a sense of something "familiar" to new users, which would be informative for them in terms of learning about Squeak.. On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > The problem with having stuff in the image by default is that it gets used > ;) > Once it is used all over the place you cannot unload it anymore. > We have no good way of preventing such "misuse". If we take it into the > image, we would basically have to say that it is now a core feature. Which > may or may not be a good idea. > - Bert - > On 04.05.2010, at 12:56, Casey Ransberger wrote: > > +1 > Having a regexp engine in a known good state that jives with your release > build is going to be key to grabbing mindshare from the likes of Ruby IMHO. > When I was first looking at Squeak, one of my first questions was "how do I > do regular expressions?" When the answer turned out to be "Go find a version > of this package that works with this release and figure out how to install > it" I nearly wrote Squeak off and went on to download a Haskell compiler > instead. > While I'd expect a regexp engine to be unloadable via > #unloadAllKnownPackages, (hence not present in a "core" image,) I would even > go so far as to say that we should probably be shipping it (and testing it) > with the "standard" image. > </2cents> > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> On 04.05.2010, at 03:58, Hannes Hirzel wrote: >> > Yes, that's an idea. However if I have the code snippet easily >> > available in the 'Extending the System' workspace, then that's fine >> > for me the time being. >> > >> > In fact I consider the Regex package to be a bit weak in terms of >> > functionality but I think we do not have anything more comprehensive. >> > >> > It is easy for me to install a new image, run the updates and then >> > execute a few more statements to configure the image for a particular >> > purpose. >> > >> > --Hannes >> > >> > On 5/3/10, Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Why isn't Regex included in the core image? It's a question I have in >> >> my mind for a while. Dealing with text in Smalltalk often results in a >> >> lot of code to write. Regular expressions are useful. Many programming >> >> languages nowadays have a Regexp engine included. >> >> >> >> Ian. >> >> -- >> >> http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> Seems to be a perfect example of a package that could be bundled with a >> release but not be loaded by default? >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > |
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