The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

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The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

commits-2
Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

==================== Summary ====================

Name: Morphic-cmm.1484
Author: cmm
Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm
UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378
Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483

Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com.  Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.

=============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============

Item was added:
+ ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
+ gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu
+ menu addItem:
+ [ : item | item
+ contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
+ help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
+ icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
+ target: Installer ;
+ selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!

Item was added:
+ ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
+ metacelloMenuItemOn: menu
+ menu addItem:
+ [ : item | item
+ contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
+ help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
+ icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
+ target: Installer ;
+ selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!

Item was changed:
  ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') -----
  toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar
 
  aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
  item
  contents: 'Tools' translated;
  addSubMenu: [ :menu |
  self
  browserMenuItemOn: menu;
  workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
  transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
  testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
  methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
  messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
  menu addLine.
  self
- monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
- monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
  simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
+ dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
+ monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
+ monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
+ metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
+ gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
- dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
  menu addLine.
  self
  processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
  preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
  fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
  ] ]!

Item was changed:
+ (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
+ TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
- (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-3
> Still I'd rather like to keep the Metacello item in the Do menu. Or Apps or Tools.

Done.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:46 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz
>
> ==================== Summary ====================
>
> Name: Morphic-cmm.1484
> Author: cmm
> Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm
> UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378
> Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483
>
> Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com.  Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.
>
> =============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============
>
> Item was added:
> + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> + gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu
> +       menu addItem:
> +               [ : item | item
> +                        contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
> +                        help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
> +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> +                        target: Installer ;
> +                        selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!
>
> Item was added:
> + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> + metacelloMenuItemOn: menu
> +       menu addItem:
> +               [ : item | item
> +                        contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
> +                        help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
> +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> +                        target: Installer ;
> +                        selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!
>
> Item was changed:
>   ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') -----
>   toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar
>
>         aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
>                 item
>                         contents: 'Tools' translated;
>                         addSubMenu: [ :menu |
>                                 self
>                                         browserMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
>                                 menu addLine.
>                                 self
> -                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> -                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> +                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> +                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> +                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
> +                                       metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
> +                                       gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
> -                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
>                                 menu addLine.
>                                 self
>                                         processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
>                                         fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
>                         ] ]!
>
> Item was changed:
> + (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
> + TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
> - (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

David T. Lewis
All menu options in Tools and Apps open some kind of tool or app.
The #ensureRecentMetacello and #installGitInfrastructure actions
are things that I want to do, not tools that I want to open.

Dave

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 05:49:25PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> > Still I'd rather like to keep the Metacello item in the Do menu. Or Apps or Tools.
>
> Done.
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:46 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
> > http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz
> >
> > ==================== Summary ====================
> >
> > Name: Morphic-cmm.1484
> > Author: cmm
> > Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm
> > UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378
> > Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483
> >
> > Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com.  Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.
> >
> > =============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============
> >
> > Item was added:
> > + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> > + gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu
> > +       menu addItem:
> > +               [ : item | item
> > +                        contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
> > +                        help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
> > +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> > +                        target: Installer ;
> > +                        selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!
> >
> > Item was added:
> > + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> > + metacelloMenuItemOn: menu
> > +       menu addItem:
> > +               [ : item | item
> > +                        contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
> > +                        help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
> > +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> > +                        target: Installer ;
> > +                        selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!
> >
> > Item was changed:
> >   ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') -----
> >   toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar
> >
> >         aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
> >                 item
> >                         contents: 'Tools' translated;
> >                         addSubMenu: [ :menu |
> >                                 self
> >                                         browserMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
> >                                 menu addLine.
> >                                 self
> > -                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > -                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> > +                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> > +                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > +                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
> > +                                       metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
> > +                                       gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
> > -                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
> >                                 menu addLine.
> >                                 self
> >                                         processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> >                                         fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
> >                         ] ]!
> >
> > Item was changed:
> > + (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
> > + TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
> > - (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
> >
> >
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-3
I expect it could be updated to open a Metacello browser after the
#ensureMetacello.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 8:07 PM David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> All menu options in Tools and Apps open some kind of tool or app.
> The #ensureRecentMetacello and #installGitInfrastructure actions
> are things that I want to do, not tools that I want to open.
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 05:49:25PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
> > > Still I'd rather like to keep the Metacello item in the Do menu. Or Apps or Tools.
> >
> > Done.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:46 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
> > > http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz
> > >
> > > ==================== Summary ====================
> > >
> > > Name: Morphic-cmm.1484
> > > Author: cmm
> > > Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm
> > > UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378
> > > Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483
> > >
> > > Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com.  Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.
> > >
> > > =============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============
> > >
> > > Item was added:
> > > + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> > > + gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu
> > > +       menu addItem:
> > > +               [ : item | item
> > > +                        contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
> > > +                        help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
> > > +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> > > +                        target: Installer ;
> > > +                        selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!
> > >
> > > Item was added:
> > > + ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
> > > + metacelloMenuItemOn: menu
> > > +       menu addItem:
> > > +               [ : item | item
> > > +                        contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
> > > +                        help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
> > > +                        icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
> > > +                        target: Installer ;
> > > +                        selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!
> > >
> > > Item was changed:
> > >   ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') -----
> > >   toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar
> > >
> > >         aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
> > >                 item
> > >                         contents: 'Tools' translated;
> > >                         addSubMenu: [ :menu |
> > >                                 self
> > >                                         browserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
> > >                                 menu addLine.
> > >                                 self
> > > -                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > > -                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> > > +                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
> > > +                                       monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > > +                                       monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
> > > +                                       metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
> > > +                                       gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
> > > -                                       dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
> > >                                 menu addLine.
> > >                                 self
> > >                                         processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
> > >                                         fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
> > >                         ] ]!
> > >
> > > Item was changed:
> > > + (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
> > > + TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
> > > - (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

marcel.taeumel
In reply to this post by commits-2
Hi, Chris.

Just no. ;-) 

The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them. Also, the "Do" menu is *not* for newcomers but for somewhat experienced programmers that are able to write and use small scripts to optimize the own workflow.

Just look at what is already in the Tools or Do menu and you can easily see these inherent characteristics. Please try to explain your decisions with more details. What is your perspective on the Tools menu?

For newcomers, they can evaluate a snippet in the workspace that includes installing such infrastructure. Just copy-and-paste from a readme.md or similar. Quite simple.

In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

Best,
Marcel

Am 05.04.2019 00:46:44 schrieb [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

==================== Summary ====================

Name: Morphic-cmm.1484
Author: cmm
Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm
UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378
Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483

Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com. Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.

=============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============

Item was added:
+ ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
+ gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu
+ menu addItem:
+ [ : item | item
+ contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
+ help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
+ icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
+ target: Installer ;
+ selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!

Item was added:
+ ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
+ metacelloMenuItemOn: menu
+ menu addItem:
+ [ : item | item
+ contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
+ help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
+ icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
+ target: Installer ;
+ selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!

Item was changed:
----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') -----
toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar

aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
item
contents: 'Tools' translated;
addSubMenu: [ :menu |
self
browserMenuItemOn: menu;
workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
menu addLine.
self
- monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
- monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
+ dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
+ monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
+ monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
+ metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
+ gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
- dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
menu addLine.
self
processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
] ]!

Item was changed:
+ (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
+ TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!
- (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!




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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Jakob Reschke-2
Hi Marcel, hi Chris,

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 08:41 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]>:
The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

Sorry, that was my compromise proposal in the other thread.

Thank you Chris for considering to keep the items around somewhere. But it seems the discussion of where to put them is not over yet.
 
In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

But if the infrastructure that "spoils" the trunk are development tools, why would you exempt them from the *development* trunk?


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

marcel.taeumel
Hi Jakob,

I think it's related to source.squeak.org and the way code can be managed in the Trunk. We would have to practically clone/copy external projects into the Trunk repo and maintain them ourselves. And be very careful to not make changes that are not reflected in the (external) project repository. Kind of confusing.

Best,
Marcel

Am 05.04.2019 08:59:00 schrieb Jakob Reschke <[hidden email]>:

Hi Marcel, hi Chris,

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 08:41 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]>:
The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

Sorry, that was my compromise proposal in the other thread.

Thank you Chris for considering to keep the items around somewhere. But it seems the discussion of where to put them is not over yet.
 
In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

But if the infrastructure that "spoils" the trunk are development tools, why would you exempt them from the *development* trunk?


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Jakob Reschke-2
Ah so you didn't mean to exempt packages from Trunk images although the packages are part of a release image, but to not include these packages in the Trunk Monticello repository (spoiling that). Did I get that right?

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 14:18 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]>:
Hi Jakob,

I think it's related to source.squeak.org and the way code can be managed in the Trunk. We would have to practically clone/copy external projects into the Trunk repo and maintain them ourselves. And be very careful to not make changes that are not reflected in the (external) project repository. Kind of confusing.

Best,
Marcel

Am 05.04.2019 08:59:00 schrieb Jakob Reschke <[hidden email]>:

Hi Marcel, hi Chris,

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 08:41 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]>:
The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

Sorry, that was my compromise proposal in the other thread.

Thank you Chris for considering to keep the items around somewhere. But it seems the discussion of where to put them is not over yet.
 
In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

But if the infrastructure that "spoils" the trunk are development tools, why would you exempt them from the *development* trunk?



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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by marcel.taeumel
Hi guys,

Marcel, we had a good discussion in the other thread (The Inbox:
System-cmm.1059.mcz) which led to this temporary solution acceptable
with at least Jakob and I.

> The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

I was under the assumption Metacello has a browser and intend for that
menu item to open a Metacello browser after the #ensureMetacello.
That preserves what Jakob wanted while one-upping the IDE
functionality we have today.

> Also, the "Do" menu is *not* for newcomers but for somewhat experienced programmers that are able to write and use small scripts to optimize the own workflow.

Rather than disagree about what it is, perhaps we can agree that it
_isn't_ a place for configuration within release image.  These tools
deserve a better place than the Do menu, and Squeak deserves to have
one unified way to load anything.  This takes it from three to two.

> Just look at what is already in the Tools or Do menu and you can easily see these inherent characteristics. Please try to explain your decisions with more details. What is your perspective on the Tools menu?

My perspective is that SCM "tools" like Simple and Dual Change sorter,
Monticello and Monticello Configurations are available under the Tools
menu.  It therefore makes sense to me that the next-level SCM tool
built on top of Monticello would be right there, too.  Does Metacello
have a browser at all, or will it?

> For newcomers, they can evaluate a snippet in the workspace that includes installing such infrastructure. Just copy-and-paste from a readme.md or similar. Quite simple.

Agreed, and I would even store such snippets in SqueakMap.

because then I could add additional entries that contained whatever is
in the README's, and then, instead of coming back from getting coffee
to ONLY have Metacello loaded, I could have _everything_ loaded.  But
that's not my business except to the extent I want Squeak release
images to have the only the right tools in only the right places, so
its not too confusing.

> In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

I hope you mean as dynamically-loadable modules.  The release images
are too big, IMO, we need to eventually try to get some things out
(Etoys) so we can make room to bring more appropriate (core) stuff in.

> Best,
> Marcel

Best,
  Chris

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

David T. Lewis
I do not agree that the temporary solution discussed below is acceptable.

Perhaps it is best if I just state exactly what I think should be done:

  1) Revert Morphic-cmm.1484. Do this by publishing Morphic-XXX.1485
  to roll back the changes.
 
  2) Put the original two doIt methods back into the Do menu. Do
  this by publishing System-XXX.1062 to add the two entries back
  into the common request string, or just revert back to the prior
  version.

My rationale is based on the following:

  1) The menu items do not belong in Tools, as previously explained.

  2) The entries in the Do menu were added to support university
  students using Squeak for the first time. This is important.

Dave


On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 03:48:48PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Marcel, we had a good discussion in the other thread (The Inbox:
> System-cmm.1059.mcz) which led to this temporary solution acceptable
> with at least Jakob and I.
>
> > The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.
>
> I was under the assumption Metacello has a browser and intend for that
> menu item to open a Metacello browser after the #ensureMetacello.
> That preserves what Jakob wanted while one-upping the IDE
> functionality we have today.
>
> > Also, the "Do" menu is *not* for newcomers but for somewhat experienced programmers that are able to write and use small scripts to optimize the own workflow.
>
> Rather than disagree about what it is, perhaps we can agree that it
> _isn't_ a place for configuration within release image.  These tools
> deserve a better place than the Do menu, and Squeak deserves to have
> one unified way to load anything.  This takes it from three to two.
>
> > Just look at what is already in the Tools or Do menu and you can easily see these inherent characteristics. Please try to explain your decisions with more details. What is your perspective on the Tools menu?
>
> My perspective is that SCM "tools" like Simple and Dual Change sorter,
> Monticello and Monticello Configurations are available under the Tools
> menu.  It therefore makes sense to me that the next-level SCM tool
> built on top of Monticello would be right there, too.  Does Metacello
> have a browser at all, or will it?
>
> > For newcomers, they can evaluate a snippet in the workspace that includes installing such infrastructure. Just copy-and-paste from a readme.md or similar. Quite simple.
>
> Agreed, and I would even store such snippets in SqueakMap.
>
> because then I could add additional entries that contained whatever is
> in the README's, and then, instead of coming back from getting coffee
> to ONLY have Metacello loaded, I could have _everything_ loaded.  But
> that's not my business except to the extent I want Squeak release
> images to have the only the right tools in only the right places, so
> its not too confusing.
>
> > In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.
>
> I hope you mean as dynamically-loadable modules.  The release images
> are too big, IMO, we need to eventually try to get some things out
> (Etoys) so we can make room to bring more appropriate (core) stuff in.
>
> > Best,
> > Marcel
>
> Best,
>   Chris
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-4
Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.

1. Tools or Apps menu.
2. Extending the System workspace
3.  SqueakMap
4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
5. Include all of it in trunk

I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a
window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly
not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github
projects.  Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in
these projects.  Please help.

 - Chris

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Hannes Hirzel
And let's add proposal

0. Keep the entries
       Installer ensureRecentMetacello.
       Installer installGitInfrastructure.
   in the 'do menu' where they have been before.
   Move
       Utilities emergencyCollapse.
       Utilities closeAllDebuggers.
to the top position in the 'do menu'.

--Hannes




On 4/6/19, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
> more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
> So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
> table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.
>
> 1. Tools or Apps menu.
> 2. Extending the System workspace
> 3.  SqueakMap
> 4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
> 5. Include all of it in trunk
>
> I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a
> window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly
> not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github
> projects.  Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in
> these projects.  Please help.
>
>  - Chris
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

fniephaus
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-4
Hi all,
I think I understand both points of view. What /I/ don't like about the two items in the Do menu is that I will only use them once, but these items will stay. After installing the Git infrastructure, I need to move over to the Tools menu, which is something you must know.
So let me add another proposal to the list:

1. Remove the two items from the Do menu.
2. Add the GitBrowser item to the Tools menu and prompt to install the Git infrastructure when the user clicks on it for the first time.
3. Add a dummy class Metacello and override doesNotUnderstand to again, prompt the user to install Metacello (and effectively replace the dummy class) when it's not found in the image. I'm sure we could make something like that work.

This way, we could get rid of the two items in the Do menu and provide their functionality when they're actually needed. Plus, we only need to maintain an item and a dummy class as part of trunk.

Maybe that's a good compromise?

Fabio


On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 6:29 AM Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.

1. Tools or Apps menu.
2. Extending the System workspace
3.  SqueakMap
4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
5. Include all of it in trunk

I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a
window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly
not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github
projects.  Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in
these projects.  Please help.

 - Chris



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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-4
Hi Chris,

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 11:28:46PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
> more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
> So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
> table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.
>
> 1. Tools or Apps menu.
> 2. Extending the System workspace
> 3.  SqueakMap
> 4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
> 5. Include all of it in trunk
>

I explained my preference in the last email. You can also find it in
the inbox as System-dtl.1059.


> I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a
> window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly
> not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github
> projects.  Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in
> these projects.  Please help.
>

I'm quite interested in the topic of how best to use git with Squeak.
I see several different approaches in circulation now (in Cuis, in
Pharo, and the Squit/Squat tools), and it is not clear to me what is
best. Other people on the list have more experience with this than
I do, but it seems to be an evolving topic at this point.

I think that the Do menu entries are good enough for now. It's a
simple solution to a real problem, and they can be easily removed
when a better approach is established.

Dave
 

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-3
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 11:28:46PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
> > Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
> > more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
> > So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
> > table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.
> >
> > 1. Tools or Apps menu.
> > 2. Extending the System workspace
> > 3.  SqueakMap
> > 4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
> > 5. Include all of it in trunk
> >
>
> I explained my preference in the last email. You can also find it in
> the inbox as System-dtl.1059.

a.k.a., Hannes' proposal 0.

Just curious, why the class check?  MCFileBasedRepository is a
permanent resident in Squeak, and its just encoded in a String so it
doesn't create unwanted package dependency, so...?

> > I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a
> > window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly
> > not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github
> > projects.  Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in
> > these projects.  Please help.
> >
>
> I'm quite interested in the topic of how best to use git with Squeak.
> I see several different approaches in circulation now (in Cuis, in
> Pharo, and the Squit/Squat tools),

and possibly another in the future -- GitQL -- a GraphQL based client
that interfaces directly with github's api.  Github was one of the
earliest and largest adopters of GraphQL, they have a whole team
dedicated to developing and maintaining its API.  I'm planning to look into it.

> and it is not clear to me what is
> best.

Squeak should support all which need to be supported due to legacy
projects.  So if, for example, Cuis' is the best, filetree projects
still need to be supported at least until they can convert, but
probably forever anyway.

> Other people on the list have more experience with this than
> I do, but it seems to be an evolving topic at this point.
>
> I think that the Do menu entries are good enough for now. It's a
> simple solution to a real problem, and they can be easily removed
> when a better approach is established.

Agree, but the only way a better approach will be established, or the
evolving topic evolve, is with positive energy that moves things
forward.

 - Chris

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

David T. Lewis
On Sat, Apr 06, 2019 at 02:42:23PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> > On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 11:28:46PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
> > > Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE
> > > more elegantly.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that.
> > > So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the
> > > table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.
> > >
> > > 1. Tools or Apps menu.
> > > 2. Extending the System workspace
> > > 3.  SqueakMap
> > > 4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
> > > 5. Include all of it in trunk
> > >
> >
> > I explained my preference in the last email. You can also find it in
> > the inbox as System-dtl.1059.
>
> a.k.a., Hannes' proposal 0.

Yes.

>
> Just curious, why the class check?  MCFileBasedRepository is a
> permanent resident in Squeak, and its just encoded in a String so it
> doesn't create unwanted package dependency, so...?

You're right, it's not a real dependency. It would only fail at runtime,
which would be fairly self-explanatory. So maybe the class check should
not be done here.

Dave


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Christoph Thiede
In reply to this post by commits-2
Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so
the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected
dependencies in #testMorphic?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Dev-f45488.html

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Chris Muller-3
Hi,

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so
the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected 
dependencies in #testMorphic?

Yes, thanks.

 - Chris


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

marcel.taeumel
In the long term, we should move TheWorldMainDockingBar to "Tools" or "MorphicExtras" or "System".

Best,
Marcel

Am 10.09.2019 05:24:19 schrieb Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so
the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected 
dependencies in #testMorphic?

Yes, thanks.

 - Chris


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

Hannes Hirzel
What is the effort of moving it  to TheWorldMainDockingBar to
Tools-Menus in the next days?

Best
Hannes

On 9/10/19, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In the long term, we should move TheWorldMainDockingBar to "Tools" or
> "MorphicExtras" or "System".
>
> Best,
> Marcel
> Am 10.09.2019 05:24:19 schrieb Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede
> <[hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so
> the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the
> expected
> dependencies in #testMorphic?
>
>
> Yes, thanks.
>
>  - Chris



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