The Trunk: Tools-mt.1029.mcz

>
> Hi
>
>
> > On 7. May 2021, at 07:51, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris.
> >
> > > Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet
> >
> > Ah, that's right. In the Windows Explorer, there has always been a conflict between click-drag-out gestures and click-drag-select gestures. It is sometimes really hard to intentionally perform one or the other.
>
> Mac makes the distinction based on how long you wait between the click and the drag, at least for text.
> So if you
> - have a selection,
> - click,
> - wait for around a second, and
> - then drag,
> you will drag the selected text around.
>
> In all other cases for text, it changes the selection.
>
> I just found it is similar for files in the Finder (think explorer), but slightly different.
> Since files are always in a vertical fashion, _the same as for text_ is true for files as long as you drag _vertically_
> I if you click-drag horizontally, it directly drags the file/selection.
>
> I think this is a quite good tradeoff there.
>
> Best regards
>         -Tobias
>
> >
> > Many touch interfaces opted for having an extra drag handle nearby. Maybe this could work?
> >
> > Best,
> > Marcel
> >> Am 07.05.2021 02:02:44 schrieb Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
> >>
> >> Hi Marcel,
> >>
> >> > Hmm... it is unusual that a normal click can also select a range.
> >>
> >> Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like
> >> swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet, and
> >> "MultiselectList" was (is?) the basis of many browsers in VisualAge Smalltalk.
> >> In Squeak it's called PluggableListMorphOfMany (used by changes
> >> browser) and it's [Alternate] incantation which doesn't lose
> >> selections simply because your framerate is too low..
> >>
> >> And, yes, Control was *supposed* to be a modifier key to toggle
> >> individuals, but as Jakob pointed out, it's intercepted by the halo.
> >>
> >> All the functions Tim mentioned are currently available via the menus.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Chris
> >>
> >
>
>
>

>
>
> Am Fr., 7. Mai 2021 um 08:30 Uhr schrieb Tobias Pape <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>> On 7. May 2021, at 07:51, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Chris.
>>>
>>>> Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet
>>>
>>> Ah, that's right. In the Windows Explorer, there has always been a conflict between click-drag-out gestures and click-drag-select gestures. It is sometimes really hard to intentionally perform one or the other.
>>
>> Mac makes the distinction based on how long you wait between the click and the drag, at least for text.
>> So if you
>> - have a selection,
>> - click,
>> - wait for around a second, and
>> - then drag,
>> you will drag the selected text around.
>>
>> In all other cases for text, it changes the selection.
>>
>> I just found it is similar for files in the Finder (think explorer), but slightly different.
>> Since files are always in a vertical fashion, _the same as for text_ is true for files as long as you drag _vertically_
>> I if you click-drag horizontally, it directly drags the file/selection.
>>
>> I think this is a quite good tradeoff there.
>>
>> Best regards
>>        -Tobias
>>
>>>
>>> Many touch interfaces opted for having an extra drag handle nearby. Maybe this could work?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Marcel
>>>> Am 07.05.2021 02:02:44 schrieb Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Marcel,
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm... it is unusual that a normal click can also select a range.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like
>>>> swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet, and
>>>> "MultiselectList" was (is?) the basis of many browsers in VisualAge Smalltalk.
>>>> In Squeak it's called PluggableListMorphOfMany (used by changes
>>>> browser) and it's [Alternate] incantation which doesn't lose
>>>> selections simply because your framerate is too low..
>>>>
>>>> And, yes, Control was *supposed* to be a modifier key to toggle
>>>> individuals, but as Jakob pointed out, it's intercepted by the halo.
>>>>
>>>> All the functions Tim mentioned are currently available via the menus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>
>
>
> > On 7. May 2021, at 20:49, Jakob Reschke <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like a good compromise, although I have no Mac to try how it
> > feels. How does Apple teach this handling to its users, or do they
> > gladly find out by accident?
>
> I figured by accident and wrongdoing. Like, try to drag but select, wonder, try differntly, epiphany, never think about it again but use it daily.
> also, newer touchpads have this click-throuhg, that when you click hard enough (like literally) it selects the whole word and brings up a pop up with a definition.
> its neat.
>

> > How complex would an implementation of
> > such motion- and time-dependent drag handling be?
>
> Not the slightest idea.
>
> -t
> >
> >
> > Am Fr., 7. Mai 2021 um 08:30 Uhr schrieb Tobias Pape <[hidden email]>:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 7. May 2021, at 07:51, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Chris.
> >>>
> >>>> Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet
> >>>
> >>> Ah, that's right. In the Windows Explorer, there has always been a conflict between click-drag-out gestures and click-drag-select gestures. It is sometimes really hard to intentionally perform one or the other.
> >>
> >> Mac makes the distinction based on how long you wait between the click and the drag, at least for text.
> >> So if you
> >> - have a selection,
> >> - click,
> >> - wait for around a second, and
> >> - then drag,
> >> you will drag the selected text around.
> >>
> >> In all other cases for text, it changes the selection.
> >>
> >> I just found it is similar for files in the Finder (think explorer), but slightly different.
> >> Since files are always in a vertical fashion, _the same as for text_ is true for files as long as you drag _vertically_
> >> I if you click-drag horizontally, it directly drags the file/selection.
> >>
> >> I think this is a quite good tradeoff there.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>        -Tobias
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Many touch interfaces opted for having an extra drag handle nearby. Maybe this could work?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Marcel
> >>>> Am 07.05.2021 02:02:44 schrieb Chris Muller <[hidden email]>:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Marcel,
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hmm... it is unusual that a normal click can also select a range.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmm, no, I don't think so. Swipe select is very common -- like
> >>>> swiping characters in text, or cells of a spreadsheet, and
> >>>> "MultiselectList" was (is?) the basis of many browsers in VisualAge Smalltalk.
> >>>> In Squeak it's called PluggableListMorphOfMany (used by changes
> >>>> browser) and it's [Alternate] incantation which doesn't lose
> >>>> selections simply because your framerate is too low..
> >>>>
> >>>> And, yes, Control was *supposed* to be a modifier key to toggle
> >>>> individuals, but as Jakob pointed out, it's intercepted by the halo.
> >>>>
> >>>> All the functions Tim mentioned are currently available via the menus.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Chris
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

>
>
>
> > On 2021-04-25, at 2:59 PM, Thiede, Christoph <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > <world-drag-classes.2.cs>
>
> Yeah, that's a very nice start. So, just as some thoughts relating -
>
>  - how about some gesture to open a hierarchy browser instead ? Actually, a switch to change a typical browser into a hierarchy browser  - in the manner of the inspect/explore switch - would be interesting
>
>  - all the other browsers ought to support the drag stuff too. I see some do, but the messagetrace doesn't appear to.
>
>  - drag a method into a MessageTrace browser and thus add implementors of that message to the stack. Maybe shift-drag adds senders of the message instead. Or, for a more extensive change, drop the message on the 'senders' button to see the senders, the 'implementors' to see (guess what) the implementors. Hell, have simple drop targets available to perform such actions; drag a method/class/etc onto a 'versions' drop target. Or 'fileout'. Etc.
>
> - Nothing to do with d&d, but how about a very simple way to add notes to methods in a browser? I'm thinking here of using a messagetrace browser and wanting to add little (pop-up?) notes to remind me of any points I notice as I follow the messages up and down. Why was I looking at this? What is it related to? All that stuff it is so easy to forget a week later when you start climbing back up the rabbit hole you fell into.
>
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Strange OpCodes: BW: Branch on Whim
>
>
>