The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd)
 
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universes are not a package mechanism. They are useful when a release
is made and they act as an extra tag to identify set of components working together. We will meet lex soon and see how we can help so that damien squeak-dev image is based on universes. However Universes are not a replacement for mc and version, but I think you know it. Stef On 7 mars 07, at 20:23, J J wrote: > That's ausome. I think having a good packaging system will help us > avoid getting into this mess again in the future. > > >> From: "Edgar J. De Cleene" <[hidden email]> >> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >> [hidden email]> >> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >> [hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd) >> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:47:49 -0300 >> >> >> >> >> El 3/6/07 4:17 PM, "J J" <[hidden email]> escribió: >> >> > This is a place universes could help. If ever application >> usable on >> > 3.9/10/whatever were in universes, then Juan could install them >> all and >> > click the "test" button to see if anything breaks. >> > >> > This is also applicable to what Ralph was saying earlier about >> the fear that >> > fixing one bug may cause another. >> >> >> The 3.10 is planned to have Universes in the base image. >> >> When user download it, could have a complete Universe to play , >> starting of >> World :=) >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. >> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, >> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). >> ¡Probalo ya! >> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? > Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp? > sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 > > > |
Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd)
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In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene
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> 3.10 don't have a "full" image in the sense what we have previously. > > Instead the plan is polish the complete building process and what > all have > heavy quality control. > > That's is delaying some, but yesterday Ralph email me saying what > his image > are having all test green. How many percentage of the image does the tests (we harvested or write) represent? While I'm a great defender/pusher of tests, I hope that ralph will not stick with his funny ideas not to harvest fix that are not covered by tests. Else clearly we will have more distributions than one :) There are too much pending fixes that are important and cannot be tested. Would be nice to hear ralph directly from time to time. > To see if we are working or taking a long vacation on some beach , > any could > check the http://source.squeakfoundation.org/ and look for 3.10. > > Myself plan is , when 3.10 is final, have a FunSqueak.image. > > Also plan use your project and all what I found and like, from > present and > past, and what I could adapt to 3.10. > > Include MorphicWrappers, MathMorphs, Fabrik, SqueakAmp. olds "Play > with me", > and if someone help , Alice. > > I hope my far friend Jerome joins and made new friends also. > > Edgar > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. > Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). > ¡Probalo ya! > http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas > > > |
re: Flow (was "The Weekly Juan #9: 'An update on Morphic 3.0'")
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Hi Stef-- > ...we tried to look at Flow but we can only make it work in 3.2... Brenda Larcom is working on a version of Flow that loads in all versions of Squeak. (I assume you're referring to class name and selector conflicts.) Flow is an important component in providing Naiad[1] connectivity to current and older versions of Squeak; I will get it working myself if necessary when the time comes. thanks! -C [1] For newcomers... Naiad is Spoon[2]'s module system; see http://tinyurl.com/2k8ksa (lists.squeakfoundation.org). [2] Spoon is a minimal version of Squeak; see http://netjam.org/spoon -- Craig Latta http://netjam.org/resume |
Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd)
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
I think universes are the next level above package - a system
configuration. I'm investigating using a universe to describe my application and its platform. The application consists of about a dozen MC packages - many with load order dependencies. Moving the application to a fresh image takes about 3 hours by hand. I could script it I guess, but I'd prefer a declarative solution. -Todd Blanchard On Mar 7, 2007, at 12:37 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > universes are not a package mechanism. They are useful when a > release is made and they act as an extra tag to identify > set of components working together. We will meet lex soon and see > how we can help so that damien squeak-dev image is based on > universes. However Universes are not a replacement for mc and > version, but I think you know it. > > Stef > > > On 7 mars 07, at 20:23, J J wrote: > >> That's ausome. I think having a good packaging system will help >> us avoid getting into this mess again in the future. >> >> >>> From: "Edgar J. De Cleene" <[hidden email]> >>> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >>> [hidden email]> >>> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >>> [hidden email]> >>> Subject: Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An >>> upd) >>> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:47:49 -0300 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> El 3/6/07 4:17 PM, "J J" <[hidden email]> escribió: >>> >>> > This is a place universes could help. If ever application >>> usable on >>> > 3.9/10/whatever were in universes, then Juan could install them >>> all and >>> > click the "test" button to see if anything breaks. >>> > >>> > This is also applicable to what Ralph was saying earlier about >>> the fear that >>> > fixing one bug may cause another. >>> >>> >>> The 3.10 is planned to have Universes in the base image. >>> >>> When user download it, could have a complete Universe to play , >>> starting of >>> World :=) >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. >>> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, >>> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). >>> ¡Probalo ya! >>> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas >>> >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? >> Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp? >> sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 >> >> >> > > |
Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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In reply to this post by Juan Vuletich-4
Juan Vuletich wrote:
> I guess you're right. There must be really a lot of interesting code out > there. However, one of the things that keeps me busy is actually > removing stuff from my image, so there's less I need to know. I'm > currently slightly below 5Mb! And I don't care too much for back > compatibility. sure, I understand. what I mostly want to emphasize is that "hidden functionalities" may be revealed in external packages, giving another insight at the usage of a given morphic implementation detail. this may help deciding weither it can easily be changed, removed or moved elsewhere. now of course what is most important is that your eventual solution is simple, powerful, beautiful and coherent :) (IMHO the current Morphic is neither simple nor too beautiful but it is powerful and coherent) ... I wish you to succeed in this demanding effort. Stef |
Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Hi Stef.
Thank you and everybody for the comments. I guess your VM doesn't support 32 bit little endian Display. If you can start the image in a Windows machine, you can change it. I'll try to upload a new image, saved as big endian, tonight. WRT loading my work on a full image, it is not currently possible. I'm not focusing on that right now. And I hope I'm right when I think that downloading a 5.5Mb file, and being able to inmediatly try it, it without installing the stuff or caring about compatibility with a certain Squeak version, is not that bad. Cheers, Juan Vuletich > Cool! > By the way can we load morphic in an image without erasing the > current one? > > Why I ask that because we tried to look at Flow but we can only make > it work in 3.2... > too bad. Lot of people could have look at it and even contributed or > gave feedback and we could have slowly migrate > from preflow to flow but this will not happen. > > If you plan (which I *really* hope) that you want a lot of people to > have a look and even > > Stef > > PS: I donwloaded the image and when I run it, I got only two colors > and half of he screen black. > > > On 5 mars 07, at 03:32, Juan Vuletich wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> >> The Weekly Juan #9 is out at http://www.jvuletich.org/issues/ >> Issue0009.htm . >> I uploaded an updated Morphic 3.0 image. >> >> Hope you like it. Any comment is welcome. >> >> Cheers, >> Juan Vuletich >> >> > > > |
Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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I'm sure I fixed this at some point. Can't remember in which image
and where I did put the changeset ... sigh. Oh, it seems I actually submitted it and it's in 3.9. Maybe even 3.8.1 :) Anyway, the culprit is DisplayScreen>setExtent:depth:. It should try the negated display depth. - Bert - On Mar 8, 2007, at 13:21 , [hidden email] wrote: > I guess your VM doesn't support 32 bit little endian Display. If > you can > start the image in a Windows machine, you can change it. I'll try to > upload a new image, saved as big endian, tonight. > >> >> PS: I donwloaded the image and when I run it, I got only two colors >> and half of he screen black. |
Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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Then I'll include the fix in my image tonight.
Thanks, Bert! Juan Vuletich > I'm sure I fixed this at some point. Can't remember in which image > and where I did put the changeset ... sigh. Oh, it seems I actually > submitted it and it's in 3.9. Maybe even 3.8.1 :) > > Anyway, the culprit is DisplayScreen>setExtent:depth:. It should try > the negated display depth. > > - Bert - > > On Mar 8, 2007, at 13:21 , [hidden email] wrote: > >> I guess your VM doesn't support 32 bit little endian Display. If >> you can >> start the image in a Windows machine, you can change it. I'll try to >> upload a new image, saved as big endian, tonight. >> >>> >>> PS: I donwloaded the image and when I run it, I got only two colors >>> and half of he screen black. > > > > > > |
Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0"
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In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
Thanks Bert.
I uploaded a new image with your fix. I also changed #findAnyDisplayDepthIfNone: . It tries first with 1bpp and goes up. This is wrong! It should try first 32bpp and down. Cheers, Juan Vuletich Bert Freudenberg escribió: > I'm sure I fixed this at some point. Can't remember in which image and > where I did put the changeset ... sigh. Oh, it seems I actually > submitted it and it's in 3.9. Maybe even 3.8.1 :) > > Anyway, the culprit is DisplayScreen>setExtent:depth:. It should try > the negated display depth. > > - Bert - > > On Mar 8, 2007, at 13:21 , [hidden email] wrote: > >> I guess your VM doesn't support 32 bit little endian Display. If you can >> start the image in a Windows machine, you can change it. I'll try to >> upload a new image, saved as big endian, tonight. >> >>> >>> PS: I donwloaded the image and when I run it, I got only two colors >>> and half of he screen black. > > > > > > > > --No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date: > 8/3/2007 10:58 a.m. > > |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
MC and version are version control systems like SVN, CVS, Darcs, etc.
Universes, as I understand them, are like the packaging systems found on Debian, RedHat, etc. >From: stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd) >Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:37:46 +0100 > >universes are not a package mechanism. They are useful when a release is >made and they act as an extra tag to identify >set of components working together. We will meet lex soon and see how we >can help so that damien squeak-dev image is based on universes. However >Universes are not a replacement for mc and version, but I think you know >it. > >Stef > > >On 7 mars 07, at 20:23, J J wrote: > >>That's ausome. I think having a good packaging system will help us avoid >>getting into this mess again in the future. >> >> >>>From: "Edgar J. De Cleene" <[hidden email]> >>>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >>>[hidden email]> >>>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<squeak- >>>[hidden email]> >>>Subject: Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd) >>>Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:47:49 -0300 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>El 3/6/07 4:17 PM, "J J" <[hidden email]> escribió: >>> >>> > This is a place universes could help. If ever application usable on >>> > 3.9/10/whatever were in universes, then Juan could install them all >>>and >>> > click the "test" button to see if anything breaks. >>> > >>> > This is also applicable to what Ralph was saying earlier about the >>>fear that >>> > fixing one bug may cause another. >>> >>> >>>The 3.10 is planned to have Universes in the base image. >>> >>>When user download it, could have a complete Universe to play , starting >>>of >>>World :=) >>> >>>Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. >>>Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, >>>está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). >>>¡Probalo ya! >>>http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas >>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? >>Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp? >>sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 |
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
Anyone know of any research being done in the arena of smalltalk backward
compatibility? I was thinking about this today, and it strikes me that perhaps since smalltalk has a live image we have some options "the cult of the dead" don't have regarding backward compatibility [1]. For example, maybe with every package we could include (or have generated if possible) all the things we obsoleted and what the correct call is now. So when the updated package is loaded into an image, in the simple case client code is simply updated with the new API and in the more complex case a pop-up could appear showing the now obsolete calls and suggestions of the usage now. We can do optimizations with the packaging system like; if you do an install then the backward compatibility info is dropped since it isn't needed. But the package manager is asked to "upgrade" then it had to do a scan since the obsolete package was previously in the image. [1] Well, the would have the options, but not in the clean reflective way smalltalk does. It would have to be a nasty file scanning hack type thing or perhaps something with Eclipse (which would basically be a nasty file scanning hack :) >From: stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An update on Morphic 3.0" >Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:34:50 +0100 > > >On 7 mars 07, at 02:08, Juan Vuletich wrote: > >>Hi Stéphane, >> >>I guess you're right. There must be really a lot of interesting code out >>there. However, one of the things that keeps me busy is actually removing >>stuff from my image, so there's less I need to know. I'm currently >>slightly below 5Mb! And I don't care too much for back compatibility. > >please do NOT be backwards compatible. Be good, nice, small, elegant will >be enough! > >Stef > >A friend of mine (a cool one) was making the comparison between mac and >pc. >On mac regularly you get driver, plug (like RS232) that get obsolete... >and on PC you get all the backwards >compatibility layer to carry with you. So may be this is why windows is >often not that stable (my point is not to open >a debate PC vs Mac but to make us all think in terms of the tradeoff.) _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 |
Re: Need for universes (was Re: The Weekly Juan #9: "An upd)
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In reply to this post by J J-6
"J J" <[hidden email]> writes:
> MC and version are version control systems like SVN, CVS, Darcs, etc. > Universes, as I understand them, are like the packaging systems found > on Debian, RedHat, etc. Yes. I like to say that MC is a "package format", and PU helps with "package sharing" or "package distribution". -Lex |
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