Traits for a Thesis?
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Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits,
we would like to know what your opinions are (if you think that this is useful,
etc) about this idea and which models do you think that would be nice to rethink
using traits. Any material related to this idea will be really
useful. Any opinion on this idea will also be useful, if you
know anther idea related to traits, please tell us. Thanks a lot. Nicolas and Claudio. Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). Probalo ya! |
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On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:57:19 +0200, claudio acciaresi wrote:
> Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from Buenos > Aires, Argentina, we’re trying to make a thesis at the > University of > Buenos > Aires. > > > Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, > we would like to know what your opinions are (if you think that this is > useful, > etc) about this idea and which models do you think that would be nice to > rethink > using traits. The html+css model is a definitely non-trivial one, especially when it comes to the modular rendering engine. See the copied text below for an impression, pointers and some ideas, also the full discussion thread @ - http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2007-February/114192.html /Klaus > Any material related to this idea will be really > useful. > > Any opinion on this idea will also be useful, if you > know anther idea related to traits, please tell us. > > > Thanks a lot. > > Nicolas and Claudio. > > Traits": > Some time ago I stepped through the process of applying a new software > layer to an existing package, without creating mutual dependency. The > base package is Todd's excellent html+css parser+DOM > > - http://www.squeaksource.com/htmlcssparser > > I used the W3 spec for designing the new software layer > > - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html > - http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/sgml/dtd.html > > The result is attached. It consists of Traits and the intended users of > it. As yet no new method has been written; that's a bit too much for me > at the moment. I still have not decided what to use, Morphic or Tweak. > But if one of the layout experts would explain to me how to layout > html+css in the Morphic or in the Tweak world then I'm sure this project > can benefit from your expertise. > > As can be seen from the attached source code, W3's "modules" when > implemented as Traits can be attached easily to Todd's fine classes, > without any side effect, in a Monticello-friendly fashion. And if > someone would decide to get rid of such "crap" then the Traits can as > well be deimplemented without any side effect. > > It's also easy to imagine that from here on more than *two* developers > can work on the same project; for example one on the hmtl-lists, another > on the html-forms, etc, without disturbing each other. And if one of > them has a requirement, master package-owner has the power to rule. What > else can a Squeaker want :) > > The above can perhaps be used for debating Traits in Squeak. Fur sure > the html+css engines belong to the most complicated pieces of software > in this time on this planet. They do, in *parallel*, multiple http > sessions, layout of parts, user interaction, security tasks, scripting, > plug-in instantiation, resource constraints, etc, only for loading *one* > single page from the web. > > I would appreciate if the Traits discussion could be directed towards > practical solutions for this practical problem. I hope that the html+css > project can benefit from your expertise, experience and opinion. > > /Klaus |
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In reply to this post by Claudio Acciaresi
Hi Nicolas and Claudio,
2007/6/21, claudio acciaresi <[hidden email]>: > Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from Buenos Aires, > Argentina, we're trying to make a thesis at the University of Buenos Aires. > Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, we would like to > know what your opinions are (if you think that this is useful, etc) about > this idea and which models do you think that would be nice to rethink using > traits. In fact, I've just finished my master in which I refactored the Squeak's Stream library using traits. The result of my work is named Nile and is available to download and try. Please have a look at my previous announcements about Nile. Feel free to ask questions. I can send you my master thesis if you want to. Bye -- Damien Cassou |
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On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:47:42 +0200, Damien Cassou wrote:
> Hi Nicolas and Claudio, > > 2007/6/21, claudio acciaresi <[hidden email]>: >> Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from Buenos >> Aires, >> Argentina, we're trying to make a thesis at the University of Buenos >> Aires. >> Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, we would like >> to >> know what your opinions are (if you think that this is useful, etc) >> about >> this idea and which models do you think that would be nice to rethink >> using >> traits. > > In fact, I've just finished my master in which I refactored the > Squeak's Stream library using traits. The result of my work is named > Nile and is available to download and try. Please have a look at my > previous announcements about Nile. Feel free to ask questions. I can > send you my master thesis if you want to. Yes please, a hyperlink would be great :) /Klaus > Bye > |
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In reply to this post by Claudio Acciaresi
Hello,
Two challenging topics on traits: - A collection hierarchy made in Traits (in the similar fashion advocated by Nathanel Schaerli in his PhD) - A smalltalk-kernel only based on traits (cf. Daniel's email below) By the way, we should keep in touch, I will be in south america at the end of this year, and will visit Argentina even if I will be based in Chile. We should keep in touch since I am working also with traits. Alexandre > Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from Buenos > Aires, Argentina, we’re trying to make a thesis at the University > of Buenos Aires. > > > Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, we would > like to know what your opinions are (if you think that this is > useful, etc) about this idea and which models do you think that > would be nice to rethink using traits. > > > Any material related to this idea will be really useful. > > Any opinion on this idea will also be useful, if you know anther > idea related to traits, please tell us. > > > Thanks a lot. > > Nicolas and Claudio. > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. |
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Hi Alexandre,
just email us when you are around here... I will be nice to see you againg and talk about this (and other) issues. Bye, Hernan. On 6/22/07,
Bergel, Alexandre <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello, |
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In reply to this post by Claudio Acciaresi
Thanks to everyone for your anwers, we'll analize the options and write again! Thanks! Claudio and Nicolás. Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! |
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In reply to this post by hernan.wilkinson
Some guys are lucky..... I should really once learn spanish and visit
the LIFIA at buenos aires. And have great fun with you guys. > Hi Alexandre, > just email us when you are around here... I will be nice to see > you againg and talk about this (and other) issues. > > Bye, > Hernan. > > On 6/22/07, Bergel, Alexandre <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello, > > Two challenging topics on traits: > > - A collection hierarchy made in Traits (in the similar > fashion > advocated by Nathanel Schaerli in his PhD) > > - A smalltalk-kernel only based on traits (cf. Daniel's > email below) > > By the way, we should keep in touch, I will be in south america at > the end of this year, and will visit Argentina even if I will be > based in Chile. We should keep in touch since I am working also with > traits. > > Alexandre > > > > Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from Buenos > > Aires, Argentina, we're trying to make a thesis at the University > > of Buenos Aires. > > > > > > Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, we would > > like to know what your opinions are (if you think that this is > > useful, etc) about this idea and which models do you think that > > would be nice to rethink using traits. > > > > > > Any material related to this idea will be really useful. > > > > Any opinion on this idea will also be useful, if you know anther > > idea related to traits, please tell us. > > > > > > Thanks a lot. > > > > Nicolas and Claudio. > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Bergel, Alexandre
Hi claudio
What would be great is to redesign from scratch a collection library or build on top of the library of damien to make sure that one day we could replace the stream library. The results of Nile are showing that traits are really worth. The design is nice and the composition of traits working well. I would be really interested in learning from a new collection library. Damien did something good: - he started to write a lot of tests - then fixed some bugs - then design nile so that the tests passed as well on nile and the squeak lib. Stef > Hello, > > Two challenging topics on traits: > > - A collection hierarchy made in Traits (in the similar fashion > advocated by Nathanel Schaerli in his PhD) > > - A smalltalk-kernel only based on traits (cf. Daniel's email below) > > By the way, we should keep in touch, I will be in south america at > the end of this year, and will visit Argentina even if I will be > based in Chile. We should keep in touch since I am working also > with traits. > > Alexandre > > >> Hello, we (Nicolas Butarelli and Claudio Acciaresi) are from >> Buenos Aires, Argentina, we’re trying to make a thesis at the >> University of Buenos Aires. >> >> >> Our initial idea is to reimplement a model using traits, we would >> like to know what your opinions are (if you think that this is >> useful, etc) about this idea and which models do you think that >> would be nice to rethink using traits. >> >> >> Any material related to this idea will be really useful. >> >> Any opinion on this idea will also be useful, if you know anther >> idea related to traits, please tell us. >> >> >> Thanks a lot. >> >> Nicolas and Claudio. >> > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > |
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Hi Stef,
isn't it there a work about that? I thought somebody did it... Are you suggesting rewrite the Collection hierarchy (keeping the same abstractions with the same protocol) or are you suggesting creating a brand new set of classes? (I think both are good for a thesis...) Hernan. On 6/23/07, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi claudio |
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2007/6/25, Hernan Wilkinson <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Stef, > isn't it there a work about that? I thought somebody did it... > Are you suggesting rewrite the Collection hierarchy (keeping the same > abstractions with the same protocol) or are you suggesting creating a brand > new set of classes? (I think both are good for a thesis...) Nathanael Scharli did the work: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi?query=nathanael+applying+traits+to+the+collection+hierarchy+oopsla. However, it's only a refactoring. What would be more interesting is a complete rewrite keeping a compatible interface (as I did with Nile). You may want to have a look at the Smalltalk ANSI standard. -- Damien Cassou |
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