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Usability issues with Calypso

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kmo

Usability issues with Calypso

I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

And what does realize do?

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Hi KMO

thanks for your feedback. Calypso is still an enfant and this is
IMPORTANT that people tell what
they do not like so that we can improve.

Stef

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 2:26 PM, kmo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
> as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
> some things I find off-putting.
>
> I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
> that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
> of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
> way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
> a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
> the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
> disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.
>
> Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
> the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
> of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?
>
> On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
> create one?
>
> And what does realize do?
>
> Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
> rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
> options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
> options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
> /move to class side/ et cetera.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by kmo

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:

I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.

So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.

Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.

There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.

I think we should also implement Metacello backend.

Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).

I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.

Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

kmo

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Thanks for the information. I'm sure Calypso is going to be brilliant.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Tim Mackinnon

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:

Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Tim Mackinnon

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (I’d never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named “Source Code Refactoring” menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?

Tim

On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Tim Mackinnon

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?

This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (I’d never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named “Source Code Refactoring” menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?

Tim

On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Hi Tim.

Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails.

About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report.

About source code refactoring:

Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso.

But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon.

Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut .

2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:

BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?

This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone
On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (I’d never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named “Source Code Refactoring” menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?

Tim

On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Tim Mackinnon

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Hey Denis - I didn't mean to interrupt your ESUG (I should have mentioned it was something to follow up on afterwards). Enjoy it and help lots of ideas.

Should I raise a bug for the saving issue in fogbugz?

I'll have to look at how you add define shortcuts in Calypso as I'm not familiar with that bit - so I'm using both browsers at the moment.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Sep 2017, at 10:45, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails.

About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report.

About source code refactoring:
Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso.
But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon.
Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut .

2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?

This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone
On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (I’d never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named “Source Code Refactoring” menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?

Tim

On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

kmo

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by Tim Mackinnon

If Tim had not posted this comment - "I love the fact you can move to a new
method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt".- I would never have known
that it was possible to do this. Since I always save my methods before
moving on I had never experienced this behaviour.

I think this is an another instance of Calypso violating "the law of least
surprise". Just like the appearance/disappearance of the "new object" tab,
this behaviour was totally unexpected by me.

I think it is wonderful that you can move on to a new method before you save
the one you are editing - but surely the natural way of achieving this is to
make the tabs work more like tabs ina standard text editor. You should be
able to have as many methods opened in tabs - saved or unsaved - as you
want. Why not have a system where if you CTRL or SHIFT click on a method it
adds that method to the set of tabs in the editing area?

That's what I would have expected all along. When you see a set of tabs in a
row you assume that you can add to them.

--
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Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by Tim Mackinnon

Hi Tim.

2017-09-06 12:54 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:

Hey Denis - I didn't mean to interrupt your ESUG (I should have mentioned it was something to follow up on afterwards). Enjoy it and help lots of ideas.

Should I raise a bug for the saving issue in fogbugz?

Yes, but on github https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.

Now it is not necessary, I will fix it anyway (it is not a hidden bug). But explicit ticket will allow you to be notified when it will be done. And that's the nice thing about issue trackers.

I'll have to look at how you add define shortcuts in Calypso as I'm not familiar with that bit - so I'm using both browsers at the moment.

I will write blog post about it. Now for example look at SycRenameMessageCommand class>>sourceCodeShortcutActivator and SycRenameVariableCommand class>>sourceCodeShortcutActivator.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Sep 2017, at 10:45, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

Sorry for late response. During Esug I am a bit out of mails.

About saving method problem it is definitely a bug. Thank's for the report.

About source code refactoring:
Supporting source code commands was easy to do with suggestions. In fact text editor menu is still working old way. That's why some extra source code menus of Nautilus is not supported in Calypso.
But general Idea is to redo all these commands with Commander. So it is todo. It is not complex task. And it will be available soon.
Now it is already possible to define shortcuts for missing source code refactorings. So if you need some concrete command we can add it very fast using shortcut .

2017-09-06 1:14 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
BTW - Is it intended that when you save a method in a Calypso tab, it shifts focus to the first non saved tab? I find this quite confusing as suddenly I'm not where I thought I was and wonder if I saved my method?

This said, I love the fact you can move to a new method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone
On 3 Sep 2017, at 22:25, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ah - you are right that rename is in there (I’d never noticed it was in the suggestions menu - which I find a confusingly named sub-menu ) - but I am missing the more appropriately named “Source Code Refactoring” menu, which it also appears along with extract method etc. This menu is not in Calypso right?

Tim

On 3 Sep 2017, at 17:24, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Tim.

No. It is available by cmd+r and from suggestions menu like in Nautilus. But maybe I do not know other place which you use for this

2017-09-03 17:03 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>:
Hi Denis - I just noticed that the source refactoring menu is missing in Calypso as well? (So you can’t rename a temp for example).

Tim

On 2 Sep 2017, at 10:30, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

2017-09-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:
I have been keen to use Calypso (I love the way it shows inherited methods)
as my browser but I am finding some usability issues. It may be just me but
some things I find off-putting.

Any feedback is very important.

I don't really like the way that adding a new class is done by a new tab
that appears now and then in the editing area. To my mind the Nautilus way
of launching a dialog to create a class seems more natural - and opens the
way in future for a class creation wizard - something that can't be done in
a code window. If we have to do it in a code tab then it would be better if
the tab remained there all the time - I don't like the way it appears and
disappears. It takes a while to learn what to click to do this.

In fact current behaviour is not replacement of old context menu command. It is just rethinking of classic single source code pane of old browsers.
So we will add missing command to context menu. But I think the command should open the current "New class" tab instead of old dialog request.
Also old browser behaviour is still working. You can create new class from the class editor tab. Just type new class name in the definition of selected class.

Also, all class creation presumes a subclass of Object in Calypso. i miss
the ability in Nautilus to select a class and immediately create a subclass
of it. Am I missing something here? Is there a way?

You are right. It is missing command like previous one. We will add it.

On the topic of my ignorance - what is a /project /in Calypso? How do you
create one?

Now it is more like a stub.
There is integration with new package management Cargo (Christophe is working on it). But it is probably not ready yet.
I think we should also implement Metacello backend.
Anyway project mode will become default view in future.

And what does realize do?

It creates stub implementation of abstract methods (found in superclasses).
I think in Calypso this command is not needed anymore because there is "should be implemented" method group which shows all these abstract methods.

Also I think that the pop up menus could be subdivided into categories
rather than present all the options in an unbroken list. And the order of
options seems odd. To my mind/ senders /and /implementers /are two menu
options that should always go together - not be separated by/ rename/ and
/move to class side/ et cetera.

Yes, I will add it.

You can report issues directly at github project https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues.
Thank's for you feedback.

Just my two cents.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by kmo

2017-09-08 14:37 GMT+02:00 kmo <[hidden email]>:

If Tim had not posted this comment - "I love the fact you can move to a new
method with unsaved changes and no nag prompt".- I would never have known
that it was possible to do this. Since I always save my methods before
moving on I had never experienced this behaviour.

I think this is an another instance of Calypso violating "the law of least
surprise". Just like the appearance/disappearance of the "new object" tab,
this behaviour was totally unexpected by me.

I think it is wonderful that you can move on to a new method before you save
the one you are editing - but surely the natural way of achieving this is to
make the tabs work more like tabs ina standard text editor. You should be
able to have as many methods opened in tabs - saved or unsaved - as you
want. Why not have a system where if you CTRL or SHIFT click on a method it
adds that method to the set of tabs in the editing area?

That's what I would have expected all along. When you see a set of tabs in a
row you assume that you can add to them.

Manual tabs are in todo.

How you would avoid auto tabs behaviour? Do you want always manually open/close tabs?

In that case for example switching from one class to another class will open six tabs if nobody close old ones.

The current behaviour is trying to be close to single source pane behaviour of old browsers.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

kmo

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

You say The current behaviour is trying to be close to single source pane
behaviour of old browsers.

I think that's a bit of the problem. For me, nautilus is a single source
pane browser and it looks like a single source pane browser. Calypso looks
like something else - it looks like a typical tabbed editor. So it's
behaviour does not march its look. That's what's confusing.

I don't know what is the best behaviour for the tabs - but I think I would
prefer always manually opening/closing tabs rather than the auto tabs
behaviour - that way I would feel more in control.

Other people's mileage may vary.

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Administrator

In reply to this post by Stephane Ducasse-3

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> Calypso is still an enfant and this is
> IMPORTANT that people tell what
> they do not like so that we can improve.

A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default
browser:
- Overall really enjoying it!
- When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension
protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes
without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to
create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the
package-to-be-extended.
- When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the
World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus"
- Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Cheers,
Sean

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

can you explain lack of word wrapping

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
>> Calypso is still an enfant and this is
>> IMPORTANT that people tell what
>> they do not like so that we can improve.
>
> A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default
> browser:
> - Overall really enjoying it!
> - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension
> protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes
> without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to
> create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the
> package-to-be-extended.
> - When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the
> World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus"
> - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris

Hi Sean

2017-09-23 19:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> Calypso is still an enfant and this is
> IMPORTANT that people tell what
> they do not like so that we can improve.

A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default
browser:
- Overall really enjoying it!
- When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension
protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes
without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had to
create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the
package-to-be-extended.

In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external package for the method.

We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages. Calypso gives you the tools for this.

But I will add special notification when user creates new protocol with star. I think it will help "old" Pharo users to adopt.

https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues/96

- When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if the
World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus"
- Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious

-----
Cheers,
Sean

--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

Administrator

Denis Kudriashov wrote
> In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor
> status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external
> package for the method.
> We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages.
> Calypso gives you the tools for this.

Aha! Cool and agreed. However, when I check the box on an existing method
and select a package, the method doesn't seem to move to the over package :/

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Cheers,
Sean

Denis Kudriashov

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

2017-09-26 3:26 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:

Denis Kudriashov wrote
> In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor
> status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external
> package for the method.
> We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages.
> Calypso gives you the tools for this.

Aha! Cool and agreed. However, when I check the box on an existing method
and select a package, the method doesn't seem to move to the over package :/

It needs more love.

Now these options are working like code editing - you need accept changes of the method.

And this logic has missing parts:

- cmd+s do not work when status bar tools are in focus.

- you should always make source code dirty to accept changes.

- method editor does not mark tab as dirty when you edit method only with status bar tools. And it does not prevent browser closing in that case.

-----
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Stephane Ducasse-3

Re: Usability issues with Calypso

In reply to this post by Denis Kudriashov

In fact I'm not sure that continuing to use the * is not a good idea.

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Denis Kudriashov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Sean
>
> 2017-09-23 19:57 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
>> > Calypso is still an enfant and this is
>> > IMPORTANT that people tell what
>> > they do not like so that we can improve.
>>
>> A few more impressions now that I've been using Calypso as my default
>> browser:
>> - Overall really enjoying it!
>> - When browsing a class from its own package, and then adding an extension
>> protocol via '*...' in "New protocol" context menu, the dialog closes
>> without objection, but then the new protocol doesn't seem to exist. I had
>> to
>> create a dummy protocol and then DND the methods into the
>> package-to-be-extended.
>
>
> In Calypso you should not create protocols with star. In method editor
> status bar there is explicit checkbox "extension" to specify external
> package for the method.
> We should move away from star convention and work directly with packages.
> Calypso gives you the tools for this.
>
> But I will add special notification when user creates new protocol with
> star. I think it will help "old" Pharo users to adopt.
> https://github.com/dionisiydk/Calypso/issues/96
>
>>
>> - When Calypso is set to be the default browser, it would be helpful if
>> the
>> World menu item changed from "Calypso Browser" to "Nautilus"
>> - Lack of word wrapping is becoming teeeeeeedious
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>