What happened to all the toys?
Locked
 
|
I was an active Squeak user around 10 years ago, but (I admit sheepishly) I disappeared. I went to rediscover Squeak and downloaded a 4.6 image, but found that many of the toys I wanted to play with are no longer part of the standard image such as: * Freecell * The Piano Keyboard morph and the Piano Roll midi reader/editor * The chess game I guess I could download an older image, but are any of these available in a more recent version of Squeak? Would a Squeak 3.2 image even work properly on a new VM? I'd bet there would be some plugin version mismatches... I opened up SqueakMap, clicked "Update", and saw a whole lot of packages, but I clearly don't understand the UI. If these packages were available somewhere, I couldn't figure out how to use it. Any help would be greatly appreciated! _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
Hi Eric,
my two cents on this: Squeak has few resources nowadays and nobody (including me) has continued to work on these things. For me the big breakdown was that project save broke in 4.5. The big plus of Squeak for me is it's backwards compatibility. So I develop in 4.4 and if I need the speed of the new VM I just deploy it on 5.0. This is for example all my Raspberry Pi work. I did a lot of work in 3.8 which afaik has all the toys you mention and some development tools I like. Basically with todays computers it runs fast as lightning compared to then. You'll need to find the latest interpreter (non cog, non spur) VM, I'll happily mail you the one I'm using. I assume I could just take the mcz's (Monticello) and load them in a current Squeak to run them. Maybe I'll do that shortly when I revisit my neural networks stuff. Bottom line: I'm happy Squeak makes the great progress (imho) it makes and I have to compensate for the losses unless I'm willing to do the work. I suggest you try a 3.8 image to find your toys and do new stuff in 5.0 unless you need to save projects across images. If so, 4.4 is the latest one. Squeak incl. 5.0 is such a great environment to be working in! Cheers, Herbert Am 14.10.2015 um 16:46 schrieb Eric
Scharff:
_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 08:04:10PM +0200, Herbert K??nig wrote:
> Hi Eric, > > my two cents on this: > > Squeak has few resources nowadays and nobody (including me) has > continued to work on these things. > > For me the big breakdown was that project save broke in 4.5. > > The big plus of Squeak for me is it's backwards compatibility. So I > develop in 4.4 and if I need the speed of the new VM I just deploy it on > 5.0. This is for example all my Raspberry Pi work. > > I did a lot of work in 3.8 which afaik has all the toys you mention and > some development tools I like. Basically with todays computers it runs > fast as lightning compared to then. You'll need to find the latest > interpreter (non cog, non spur) VM, I'll happily mail you the one I'm > using. I assume I could just take the mcz's (Monticello) and load them > in a current Squeak to run them. Maybe I'll do that shortly when I > revisit my neural networks stuff. The VMs at www.squeakvm.org are suitable for running Squeak 3.8. There is a link ("Classic VMs") from the downloads page on squeak.org. Dave > > Bottom line: > I'm happy Squeak makes the great progress (imho) it makes and I have to > compensate for the losses unless I'm willing to do the work. I suggest > you try a 3.8 image to find your toys and do new stuff in 5.0 unless you > need to save projects across images. If so, 4.4 is the latest one. > > Squeak incl. 5.0 is such a great environment to be working in! > > Cheers, > > Herbert > > Am 14.10.2015 um 16:46 schrieb Eric Scharff: > >I was an active Squeak user around 10 years ago, but (I admit > >sheepishly) I disappeared. > > > >I went to rediscover Squeak and downloaded a 4.6 image, but found that > >many of the toys I wanted to play with are no longer part of the > >standard image such as: > > * Freecell > > * The Piano Keyboard morph and the Piano Roll midi reader/editor > > * The chess game > > > >I guess I could download an older image, but are any of these > >available in a more recent version of Squeak? Would a Squeak 3.2 image > >even work properly on a new VM? I'd bet there would be some plugin > >version mismatches... > > > >I opened up SqueakMap, clicked "Update", and saw a whole lot of > >packages, but I clearly don't understand the UI. If these packages > >were available somewhere, I couldn't figure out how to use it. > > > >Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Beginners mailing list > >[hidden email] > >http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > _______________________________________________ > Beginners mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
In reply to this post by Herbert König
(sigh) Forgive me for feeling the need to set the record straight. I think your phrase, "few resources nowadays" implies that Squeak is barely on life-support when, in fact, we just put out best release at least since 3.8 thanks to the hundreds of hours poured in by volunteers from all over. I'm not sure what work needs to be done on these things, but they're still there and available in Squeak 5.0 right now. I just loaded up Chess straight into 5.0 from SqueakMap. It was flawless.
That was due to the premature introduction of Environments. I wish I had time to try to figure it out because this is clearly affecting Squeak's users.. :-( Is anyone using Environments who might know enough how to fix that bug? In any case, you can save Projects with the Ma Serializer package.
Why not develop in 5.0? Because of the project save bug?
PianoMorph and WaveEditorMorph, are right there in the 5.0 image. Chess is on SqueakMap, it works. There are multiple FreeCell games on SqueakMap as well as a "Games" package. I would recommend at least _trying_ to load them before reverting to any old image.
The latest interpreter VM has problems and is not maintained. Its use is not recommended. By contrast, the VM's for 4.6 and 5.0 ARE actively maintained today. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
In reply to this post by Herbert König
Hi Eric, it looks like youtube has a video which shows how to load the "Games" package from SqueakMap. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
Thanks everyone for your replies. I found the Piano roll morph and the keyboard morph in the standard image, as Chris indicated. Coming from an ancient Squeak, I had trouble finding the parts bin, but once I did, I found them. Awesome! SqueakMap is tricky, especially if you know nothing. Here's what I did 1) Download and run the Squeak All in One 5.0 distribution 2) Select "SqueakMap catalog" from the Apps menu On a brand new image, this will open browser with no contents. Solving this is fairly intuitive by clicking the "Update" button It then populates the list with a bunch of packages, but "Freecell" and "Chess" and "Games" are not there, nor does it work to search for them. After a bit of head scratching, I saw the title window said "27 of 797 packages" How do I see all the other packages? This took a bunch of head scratching. I knew there was some filtering, but nothing sticks out obviously. Eventually (mostly through stumbling around), I right clicked in the tree in the bottom left, and found the "Clear all filters" button. This improves things greatly, and now I can search for packgaes! Clicking "Install" on the Chess Game package gives some threatening warning dialogs (this hasn't been tested in your Squeak version, find another one?) (this package isn't safe), but it installed without errors. Woohoo! The "Games" package http://map.squeak.org/package/643f4620-0fe6-493b-a129-7fd1224e0fe4 is a different story. Attempting to install this raises a syntax error parsing AtomicMap22, with an invalid literal: layout atRow: 8 put: #(1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 #(#H #Invalid literal character ->3 3 nw) 1 1 ). If you try to proceed through these errors, you'll actually break the parts bin. You then open the parts bin, click on the "Games" category, and get a debugger error. Thanks again. It's much closer to working (and I can now do what I wanted) but it definitely is still bumpy, and it would be great to play the old games package without going back to 3.10, for which this package is tagged. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
On 10/14/15, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Squeak has few resources nowadays and nobody (including me) has continued >> to work on these things. >> > > (sigh) Forgive me for feeling the need to set the record straight. I think > your phrase, "few resources nowadays" implies that Squeak is barely on > life-support when, in fact, we just put out best release at least since 3.8 > thanks to the hundreds of hours poured in by volunteers from all over. > > I'm not sure what work needs to be done on these things, but they're still > there and available in Squeak 5.0 right now. I just loaded up Chess > straight into 5.0 from SqueakMap. It was flawless. Good to know, but it is not listed under the 5.0 loadable packages. Could it be added? > >> For me the big breakdown was that project save broke in 4.5. >> > > That was due to the premature introduction of Environments. I wish I had > time to try to figure it out because this is clearly affecting Squeak's > users.. :-( Is anyone using Environments who might know enough how to > fix that bug? > > In any case, you can save Projects with the Ma Serializer package. > > >> >> The big plus of Squeak for me is it's backwards compatibility. So I >> develop in 4.4 and if I need the speed of the new VM I just deploy it on >> 5.0. This is for example all my Raspberry Pi work. >> > > Why not develop in 5.0? Because of the project save bug? > > >> I did a lot of work in 3.8 which afaik has all the toys you mention and >> some development tools I like. >> > > PianoMorph and WaveEditorMorph, are right there in the 5.0 image. You may get a PianoMorph through WorldMenu --> New Morph --> From alphabetical list --> PianoKeyboardMorph This works. But if I apply this to the PianoScoreMorph I get a red rectangle. So a setup which shows the score seemingly needs another way of setup. The question is how.... Chess is > on SqueakMap, it works. There are multiple FreeCell games on SqueakMap as > well as a "Games" package. I would recommend at least _trying_ to load > them before reverting to any old image. > > >> Basically with todays computers it runs fast as lightning compared to >> then. You'll need to find the latest interpreter (non cog, non spur) VM, >> > > The latest interpreter VM has problems and is not maintained. Its use is > not recommended. > > By contrast, the VM's for 4.6 and 5.0 ARE actively maintained today. > Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: What happened to all the toys?
|
|
Good to know, Sure, done. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
«
Return to Squeak - Beginners
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |