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What is an 'embedded' image?

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Chris Muller-4

What is an 'embedded' image?

I just came across SmalltalkImage>>#saveAsEmbeddedImage. The comment
for the method states:

"Save the current state of the system as an embedded image"

Brilliant!

Could someone please elaborate for me?

Bob Arning-2

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

this is the first thing Google suggested

http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/squeak/readme.txt

Cheers,
Bob

On 10/25/13 12:19 PM, Chris Muller wrote:

I just came across SmalltalkImage>>#saveAsEmbeddedImage.  The comment
for the method states:

  "Save the current state of the system as an embedded image"

Brilliant!

Could someone please elaborate for me?

cbc

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

In reply to this post by Chris Muller-4

A long time ago, I saw an exchange where there was discussion about storing the image with the executable itself - when I first saw this message, that's what I thought. So I googled, and found:

http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/squeak/readme.txt

Not sure if it is the same thing, but interesting.

If you follow the logic a bit, you see if call this primitive:

snapshotEmbeddedPrimitive

<primitive: 247>

^nil "indicates error writing embedded image file"

Not sure what the primitive it doing (haven't looked into the C / VM code).

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

I just came across SmalltalkImage>>#saveAsEmbeddedImage. The comment
for the method states:

"Save the current state of the system as an embedded image"

Brilliant!

Could someone please elaborate for me?

Bob Arning-2

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

In reply to this post by Chris Muller-4

and a little search at http://69.251.218.6:9116/

gives us:

Change Set:        SingleImageExecutableJMM
Date:            21 November 2000
Author:            [hidden email]

Basic support to snapshot an image into a VM, support for this must come from the target platform, post 2.9.5 macintosh VM support this"

Cheers,
Bob

On 10/25/13 12:19 PM, Chris Muller wrote:

I just came across SmalltalkImage>>#saveAsEmbeddedImage.  The comment
for the method states:

  "Save the current state of the system as an embedded image"

Brilliant!

Could someone please elaborate for me?

timrowledge

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

I vaguely recall discussions about this sort of thing; a way to bundle an image with a vm in the days before Apple finally copied the RISC OS application structure. Back then - and maybe still now, I wouldn’t know - Windows was able to bind assorted resources into the same file as an executable. At one point in ancient history VisualWorks could do that as a distribution mechanism.

For RISC OS you just need to save a normal file inside the !appdir, for OS X I’m guessing you can save a normal file inside the bundle, for Windows… no idea, for *nix there are probably 700 different ways with 7000 opinions published as to why each one is stupid, or brilliant.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
"How many Kzin does it take to change a lightbulb?" "None. You can scream and leap in the dark."

tty

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

Would this be a promising starting point for de-coupling squeak from its current UI and building an X-Windows interface to it?

---- On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:29:42 -0700 tim Rowledge<[hidden email]> wrote ----

I vaguely recall discussions about this sort of thing; a way to bundle an image with a vm in the days before Apple finally copied the RISC OS application structure. Back then - and maybe still now, I wouldn’t know - Windows was able to bind assorted resources into the same file as an executable. At one point in ancient history VisualWorks could do that as a distribution mechanism.

For RISC OS you just need to save a normal file inside the !appdir, for OS X I’m guessing you can save a normal file inside the bundle, for Windows… no idea, for *nix there are probably 700 different ways with 7000 opinions published as to why each one is stupid, or brilliant.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
"How many Kzin does it take to change a lightbulb?" "None. You can scream and leap in the dark."

timrowledge

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

On 25-10-2013, at 10:32 AM, gettimothy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Would this be a promising starting point for de-coupling squeak from its current UI and building an X-Windows interface to it?

I’m not at all sure how it would have anything much to do with that. Once you’ve done the simple (hah!) work of removing all the mvc & morphic code whilst still keeping a usable system (hint; see some of the work Craig Latta did for Spoon, and the Fenix project and another similar one I can’t recall the name of right now, oh ghods I’m so embarrassed) and then added what you want for an X interface… then maybe worrying about how to package it becomes urgent. Lots of work to enjoy in *that* little list.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you

Bob Arning-2

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

No real need to remove all the mvc/morphic code. Just implement your X interface and use it. You can delete the old stuff at your leisure.

On 10/25/13 1:43 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:

On 25-10-2013, at 10:32 AM, gettimothy [hidden email] wrote:

Would this be a promising starting point for de-coupling squeak from its current UI and building an X-Windows interface to it?

I’m not at all sure how it would have anything much to do with that. Once you’ve done the simple (hah!) work of removing all the mvc & morphic code whilst still keeping a usable system (hint; see some of the work Craig Latta did for Spoon, and the Fenix project and another similar one I can’t recall the name of right now, oh ghods I’m so embarrassed) and then added what you want for an X interface… then maybe worrying about how to package it becomes urgent.  Lots of work to enjoy in *that* little list.


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you

tty

Re: What is an 'embedded' image?

That's good news; I was thinking--to interface with Squeak w/o starting The World, yet still retain the ability to launch it from a terminal if desired.

So much to learn....

thx

t

---- On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:53:35 -0700 Bob Arning<[hidden email]> wrote ----

No real need to remove all the mvc/morphic code. Just implement your X interface and use it. You can delete the old stuff at your leisure.

On 10/25/13 1:43 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:

[hidden email]" type="cite">

 On 25-10-2013, at 10:32 AM, gettimothy [hidden email] wrote:

Would this be a promising starting point for de-coupling squeak from its current UI and building an X-Windows interface to it?

 I’m not at all sure how it would have anything much to do with that. Once you’ve done the simple (hah!) work of removing all the mvc & morphic code whilst still keeping a usable system (hint; see some of the work Craig Latta did for Spoon, and the Fenix project and another similar one I can’t recall the name of right now, oh ghods I’m so embarrassed) and then added what you want for an X interface… then maybe worrying about how to package it becomes urgent.  Lots of work to enjoy in *that* little list. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you