Why Squeak is so sloooow?

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.)
>    2. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray Vladimir
> Luna C?rdenas)
>    3. webdav monitcello repo problems. (Bakki Kudva)
>    4. RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.)
>    5. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray
> Vladimir Luna C?rdenas)
>    6. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad
> Fuller)
>    7. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (David
> Shaffer)
>    8. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad
> Fuller)
>    9. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan
> Zimmermann)
>
>
>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> linux squeak is very slow.
> I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated way
> and a big latency.
> It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> because the movement of a picture imply a speed down
> of other pictures in the game.
>
> I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
>
> Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for execute
> squeak? Occur the same in windows?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:27:18 -0500
> From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic
> questionsabout
> Squeak."<[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Do you have any of these games to test? I have been
> using Squeak on
> Linux without any slowness problem.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> Antonio San. escribió:
> > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> > linux squeak is very slow.
> > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated
> way
> > and a big latency.
> > It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> > because the movement of a picture imply a speed
> down
> > of other pictures in the game.
> >
> > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> > tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
> >
> > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for
> execute
> > squeak? Occur the same in windows?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
>

> >
> >  
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:32:29 -0400
> From: "Bakki Kudva" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Newbies] webdav monitcello repo problems.
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
> about Squeak."
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>
>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> I have a webdav dir on apache2 on Debian Sarge. I
> can access it from
> another machine using cadaver and browse the dir.
> However if I try to
> use Monticello on it I get error: could not access
> http://....
>
> I am using an IP address since I don't have fqdn for
> it..yet.
>
> I added the repository to monticello using
> http://ip-address/path with
> user name and pwd. I am using basic authentication
> on the server and
> have enabled put. I could not find anything on
> google and wiresong
> which helped. Is there something I am overlooking?
>
> tia,
>
> bakki
>
> PS: posted to dev list previously
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:22:27 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "Antonio San." <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID:
>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> good environment for game-develop learning ... and I
> think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> for spending efforts and time.
>  
> But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
>
> Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
>
> It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> continues when you enter in an other project giving
> in
> background blobs working. But I don't know how to do
> that, because when I enter in an other project blobs
> stop.
>
>
> PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the same
> topic in the list and not in other thread?
>
>
>
> >Hi Antonio,
>
> >Do you have any of these games to test? I have been
> >using Squeak on
> >Linux without any slowness problem.
>
> >Cheers,
>
> >Offray
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
> http://es.voice.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:45:10 -0500
> From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic
> questionsabout
> Squeak."<[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> The German company Impara has developed a lot of
> games in Squeak[1]. I
> don't know if any of the Impara people is here, but
> if this is the case
> may be they can make a point about Squeak as a game
> development platform
>
> [1] http://www.impara.de/references.html
>
> I think that Squeak is nice for games development
> and some friends and
> me will try to learn and use it for a Free Software
> CreativeCommons Game
> (but this is a slow process, don't hold your
> breath). May be you can try
> Python and Panda3D also. But from a cognitive point
> of view, I can't see
> any more friendlier that Squeak.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
> Pdt: I don't know what's wrong with the threads of
> your mails, other
> seems tho behave properly... :-/
>
> Antonio San. escribió:
> > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> > good environment for game-develop learning ... and
> I
> > think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> > for spending efforts and time.
> >  
> > But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
> >
> > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
> >
> > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> > continues when you enter in an other project
> giving in
> > background blobs working. But I don't know how to
> do
> > that, because when I enter in an other project
> blobs
> > stop.
> >
> >
> > PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the
> same
> > topic in the list and not in other thread?
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >> Hi Antonio,
> >>    
> >
> >  
> >> Do you have any of these games to test? I have
> been
> >> using Squeak on
> >> Linux without any slowness problem.
> >>    
> >
> >  
> >> Cheers,
> >>    
> >
> >  
> >> Offray
> >>    
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
>

> >
> >  
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
> AVISO LEGAL: El presente correo electronico no
> representa la opinion o el consentimiento oficial de
> la PONTIFICIA UNIVERSIDAD JAVERIANA. Este mensaje es
> confidencial y puede contener informacion
> privilegiada la cual no puede ser usada ni divulgada
> a personas distintas de su destinatario. Esta
> prohibida la retencion, grabacion, utilizacion,
> aprovechamiento o divulgacion con cualquier
> proposito. Si por error recibe este mensaje, por
> favor destruya su contenido y avise a su remitente.
> En este aviso legal se omiten intencionalmente las
> tildes.
>
> Este mensaje ha sido revisado por un sistema
> antivirus, por lo que su contenido esta libre de
> virus.
> This e-mail has been scanned by an antivirus system,
> so its contents is free of viruses.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:47:37 -0700
> From: Brad Fuller <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
> about Squeak."
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Antonio San. wrote:
> > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a
> > good environment for game-develop learning ... and
> I
> > think that squeak could be a very very useful
> project
> > for spending efforts and time.
> >  
> > But I have done the test with the "games" inside
> > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob.
> >
> > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for
> > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the
> > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM)
> >
> > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use
> > continues when you enter in an other project
> giving in
> > background blobs working. But I don't know how to
> do
> > that, because when I enter in an other project
> blobs
> > stop.
> >
> >  
> Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests on
> your specific needs.
> What type of game are you going to create?
>
> --
> brad fuller
> sonaural: www.sonaural.com
> personal: www.bradfuller.com
>           www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:55:40 -0400
> From: David Shaffer <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
> about Squeak."
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Brad Fuller wrote:
> > Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests
> on your specific needs.
> > What type of game are you going to create?
> >
> >  
> You're certainly right Brad but let me add that the
> Squeak 3.9 image is
> unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz
> Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM).
> I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9
> release.  It is too
> slow for simple window operations and causes a
> gastly amount of CPU
> utilization even under lite GUI use.  Antonio might
> be reflecting on
> this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm
> sure that any amount of
> "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal that
> it feels like
> walking though mud ;-)
>
> Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for development.
> Nice and snappy.
>
> David
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:07:52 -0700
> From: Brad Fuller <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the
> most basic questions
> about Squeak."
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> David Shaffer wrote:
> > Brad Fuller wrote:
> >  
> >> Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests
> on your specific needs.
> >> What type of game are you going to create?
> >>
> >>  
> >>    
> > You're certainly right Brad but let me add that
> the Squeak 3.9 image is
> > unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz
> Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM).
> > I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9
> release.  It is too
> > slow for simple window operations and causes a
> gastly amount of CPU
> > utilization even under lite GUI use.  Antonio
> might be reflecting on
> > this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm
> sure that any amount of
> > "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal
> that it feels like
> > walking though mud ;-)
> >
> > Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for
> development.  Nice and snappy.
> >  
> Ok, so I haven't used 3.9 really. What's the
> problem? What changed from
> 3.7 to 3.9. 3.8 used the 3.7 VM so that's probably
> not it.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:23:46 -0400
> From: Milan Zimmermann
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow?
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Which VM version are you using - could you try to
> run, in command line:
>
> squeak -version
>
> And report results, thanks. Older versions of VM
> caused high CPU use, but I
> never had a "cpu overheat in a desmesurated way" :)
> - new version 3.9 is
> fine.
>
> Many people on squeak-dev including me use Squeak on
> Linux, it certainly is
> reasonably fast for me (e.g. faster than Ruby,
> although I think you are
> talking mostly about graphical stuff?)
>
> Also, in case you are using OpenCroquet
> http://opencroquet.org make sure you
> have OpenGL driver installed correctly. If you use
> straight squeak, is it
> slow for you even with a fresh image?
> http://squeak.org/Download
>
>
>
> On 2006 September 21 10:18, Antonio San. wrote:
> > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in
> > linux squeak is very slow.
> > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels
> over
> > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated
> way
> > and a big latency.
> > It is specially bad for videogames developed in
> squeak
> > because the movement of a picture imply a speed
> down
> > of other pictures in the game.
> >
> > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I
> have
> > tested in five diferents machines, included a
> powerful
> > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same
> results.
> >
> > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for
> execute
> > squeak? Occur the same in windows?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por
> minuto.
> > http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
>