Windows installation broken?

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
31 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Windows installation broken?

horrido
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
I had to see for myself.

I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
and installed Pharo Launcher.

That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
to open (presumably, they just crash).

Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Travis Ayres
The launcher is broken for me as well.

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 8:40 PM, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
I had to see for myself.

I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
and installed Pharo Launcher.

That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
to open (presumably, they just crash).

Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

hernanmd
In reply to this post by horrido
It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.

Cheers,

Hernan
El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

>
> Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
> I had to see for myself.
>
> I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
> and installed Pharo Launcher.
>
> That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
> broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
> to open (presumably, they just crash).
>
> Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Peter Kenny
I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.

I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.

I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.

Hope this helps

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand
Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.

Cheers,

Hernan
El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

>
> Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under
> Windows. So I had to see for myself.
>
> I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp),
> downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
>
> That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
> broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three
> refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
>
> Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Richard Sargent (again)
Try running the launcher as administrator.
It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago.

On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:
I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.

I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.

I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.

Hope this helps

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand
Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.

Cheers,

Hernan
El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under
Windows. So I had to see for myself.

I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp),
downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.

That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three
refused to open (presumably, they just crash).

Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Peter Kenny

Tried ‘Run as administrator’ – same result. Also tried to uninstall launcher, both by double-clicking ‘uninstall.exe’ and via Windows settings menu. Nothing happens. It really is broken.

 

Peter Kenny

 

From: Richard Sargent <[hidden email]>
Sent: 17 June 2018 17:42
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>; PBKResearch <[hidden email]>; 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

 

Try running the launcher as administrator.
It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago.

On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.

I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.

I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.

Hope this helps

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand
Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.

Cheers,

Hernan
El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under
 Windows. So I had to see for myself.

I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp),
 downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.

That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
 broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three
 refused to open (presumably, they just crash).

Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Petr Fischer
In reply to this post by horrido
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :)

Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds:
https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464

If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux).

pf

> Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
> I had to see for myself.
>
> I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
> and installed Pharo Launcher.
>
> That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
> broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
> to open (presumably, they just crash).
>
> Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

philippeback
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files.
The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.

That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.


This is the one you want:


For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

Phil



On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:17 PM Petr Fischer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :)

Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds:
https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464

If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux).

pf

> Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
> I had to see for myself.
>
> I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
> and installed Pharo Launcher.
>
> That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
> broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
> to open (presumably, they just crash).
>
> Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Travis Ayres
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files.
The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.

That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.


This is the one you want:


For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

Phil



On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:17 PM Petr Fischer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :)

Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds:
https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464

If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux).

pf

> Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So
> I had to see for myself.
>
> I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded
> and installed Pharo Launcher.
>
> That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
> broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused
> to open (presumably, they just crash).
>
> Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

philippeback
In reply to this post by Peter Kenny

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:02 PM PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Tried ‘Run as administrator’ – same result. Also tried to uninstall launcher, both by double-clicking ‘uninstall.exe’ and via Windows settings menu. Nothing happens. It really is broken.

 

Peter Kenny

 

From: Richard Sargent <[hidden email]>
Sent: 17 June 2018 17:42
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>; PBKResearch <[hidden email]>; 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

 

Try running the launcher as administrator.
It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago.

On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.

I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.

I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.

Hope this helps

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand
Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?

It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.

Cheers,

Hernan
El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under
 Windows. So I had to see for myself.

I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp),
 downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.

That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
 broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three
 refused to open (presumably, they just crash).

Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

horrido
In reply to this post by Travis Ayres
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).

I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
Pharo's reputation.

The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.


Travis Ayres wrote
> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,

> phil@

>  &lt;

> phil@

> &gt;
> wrote:
>
>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>> improving.
>>
>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>
>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>
>> This is the one you want:
>>
>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>
>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>
>> Phil





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Herby Vojčík


horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
> (undocumented or hard to find).
>
> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
> Pharo's reputation.
>
> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.

Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

Herby

> Travis Ayres wrote
>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>
>> phil@
>
>>   &lt;
>
>> phil@
>
>> &gt;
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>>> improving.
>>>
>>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>>
>>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>>
>>> This is the one you want:
>>>
>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>>
>>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>>
>>> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Tim Mackinnon
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision

That’s a bit provocative - I think the launcher is pretty good, and helps ensure people get correct versions of things as well as feel more comfortable checking out newer Pharo’s (like 7) or other projects. I’ll admit I've blown hot and cold on it over the last few years - but I’ve come back to it, as it is a nice tool - we just need to rally around and fix it on Windows - and ideally ensure its got some tests to show if its broken.

Possibly we could make the download page a bit clearer? But that’s a simple Bug report.

I actually admire the drive to push things on - and now is the time to rally around together as we’ve had a lot of changes that need stabilising so that exciting things like documenter can hit main stream as well.

Tim

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 14:39, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
> Herby
>
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  &lt;
>>> phil@
>>> &gt;
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>>>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>>>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>>>> improving.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>>>
>>>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>>>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>>>
>>>> This is the one you want:
>>>>
>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>>>
>>>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>>>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík


> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.

The 'first contact for people who don't know Pharo' on Windows is really hard for an IDE.

And although I am not daily using the Launcher myself, I too believe it is a really good tool for many users. It just needs fixing and maintenance, like everything out there that wants to be successful in our ever changing world.

> Herby
>
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  &lt;
>>> phil@
>>> &gt;
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>>>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>>>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>>>> improving.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>>>
>>>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>>>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>>>
>>>> This is the one you want:
>>>>
>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>>>
>>>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>>>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík


> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>> Pharo's reputation.
>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>
> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

First, it was MY decision.
I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good.
I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.

Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.

Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.

Esteban

>
> Herby
>
>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>> phil@
>>>  &lt;
>>> phil@
>>> &gt;
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>>>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>>>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>>>> improving.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>>>
>>>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>>>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>>>
>>>> This is the one you want:
>>>>
>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>>>
>>>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>>>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

horrido
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?

I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
has about 2%.


Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík &lt;

> herby@

> &gt; wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
>>> about
>>> Pharo's reputation.
>>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>
>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers
> who can fix Windows problems.





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
Most are using macOS (which can be considered more or less homogeneous since most mac users do update to recent versions at no cost).

Many people are using Linux too, both with UI and for servers. But since there are lots of Linux distributions, supporting a large portion of them is lots of work. I would say it is fair to say Ubuntu is the leading platform here.

It feels as if there are less Windows users in our community, and the Windows world is more fragmented over different versions.

People really underestimate how hard it is to support all these platforms with all their quirks. And of course, every individual user complains loudly when it is not working for them.

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:16, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
>
> I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
> has about 2%.
>
>
> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
>>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík &lt;
>
>> herby@
>
>> &gt; wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>>>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>>>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>>>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>>>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
>>>> about
>>>> Pharo's reputation.
>>>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>>
>>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
>>> decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to
>>> working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>>
>> The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers
>> who can fix Windows problems.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Herby Vojčík
In reply to this post by EstebanLM


Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:

>
>
>> On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
>>> This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
>>> (undocumented or hard to find).
>>> I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
>>> newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
>>> Pharo's reputation.
>>> The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
>>
>> Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
>
> First, it was MY decision.

My apologies to blaming Steph.

> I’m pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now.
> Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good.
> I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but I’ve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
>
> Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
>
> Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.

I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows
launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the
default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind
of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally
actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.

Herby

> Esteban
>
>>
>> Herby
>>
>>> Travis Ayres wrote
>>>> I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
>>>> and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
>>>> phil@
>>>>   &lt;
>>>> phil@
>>>> &gt;
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
>>>>> edge is the wrong one in files.
>>>>> The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
>>>>> improving.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
>>>>>
>>>>> so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
>>>>> jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the one you want:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
>>>>>
>>>>> For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
>>>>> into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík


On 18 June 2018 at 21:39, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:


horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).

I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about
Pharo's reputation.

The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.

Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

Herby

I've been using PharoLauncher for years jumping between Linux & Windows, and it has worked great.
Its not PharoLauncher itself, but limitations of the NSIS installer that was used and how that interacted poorly with some environments e.g. admin versus non-admin accounts.

The meta-problem is that PharoLauncher worked great for its few users who had compatible environments,
but problems remained submerged because it lacked exposure to broad enough environments to unearth such problems.
A chicken/egg scenario was limiting broader use of PharoLauncher, and it would continue to languish
with biting the bullet to get more users - and more reports.  The challenge is providing enough resource priority
to deal with issues quickly so not to annoy users too much.

I'm very glad PharoLauncher is being promoted as it is,  however it may be worth considering that 
it is for "managing multiple images" and very-new users probably aren't immediately concerned with that.
Very-new users are concerned with getting something up as quick and easy as possible,
and PharoLauncher does add a few extra steps.  Maybe the top of the downloads page could
have the zip downloads tagged something like "Taste Test Install"  and also include a copy of PBE in those zips.

cheers -ben

 


Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken"
and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,

phil@

  &lt;

phil@

&gt;
wrote:

The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
edge is the wrong one in files.
The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really
improving.

That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.

so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-
jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher

This is the one you want:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/

For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get
into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.

Phil





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Windows installation broken?

jgfoster
In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Herbert Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
>> please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
>
> I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.

“Sometimes" it seems necessary to be rude. If an insult is the only thing that works, "it is anything but unnecessary."

While one can make a case that arrogant, rude behavior is occasionally “necessary," you haven’t made it here. To do so you first need to show (1) not just that the problem existed but was reported a long time ago, (2) that other more gentle attempts to push the issue were unsuccessful, (3) that the benefit of the fix outweighs the cost of the damage you are doing to the community, and (4) that you are uniquely qualified to make that judgment. You have not satisfied any of those requirements.

Is this the way you treat your family? Are you managing a software team using this approach? Or do you limit this sort of behavior to on-line communities?

James Foster
12