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a Cog BASH install script, please (as opposed to using 'make install')

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Chris Cunnington-4

a Cog BASH install script, please (as opposed to using 'make install')

The short answer (could be wrong):

Almost nobody can compile Cog from sources. That means that almost nobody can install Cog in the appropriate way on Linux. This means a BASH script that does what "make install" does would be a good thing.

The long answer (still could be wrong):

I ranted recently about installer scripts for VMs. Afterward I wasn't even sure what I was talking about. I was sure I'd seen two expert programmers have a hellish time trying to install Cog on Linux servers. I don't have that problem, because I don't install. I just put the vm on the command line and use.

When I suggested to these programmers that they should do the same, if they could have reached through the screen, they would have slapped me. But what was going on?

They both tried to compile Cog from sources, not because it's a fun thing to do, but in hindsight, I think they were doing it, because they thought it was the only way to install it on Linux. You need to execute:

make

before you can install:

make install

If they could have just done the second part, I think they would have. But I think it necessitated the first part. Perhaps pre-compiled Cog binaries should come with a Makefile for "make install"?

I remember watching one programmer do it and talk on Squeak IM at the same time. The consensus with another expert level programmer was that Eliot's way ( Hi, Eliot !) of building VMs was particular to him and not really a process for wide consumption. What does that mean? I have no idea. If you want to comb through the Squeak IM transcripts of the last four-five months, you'll find it.

Eliot releases his VMs, which are wonderful, with a script called squeak. I think that's just for starting images on the command line. I went back to r2151 and it comes with two scripts - squeak and squeak.sh. They appear to do the same thing. Then I went back to r1596 to see how I successfully installed a VM on a Linux box in 2006. I think anybody could use "make" and then "make install" back then. I don't think it came with a script for starting on the command line.

On Friday I made the squeak.org homepage run on CogSpur. I did it by doing horrible things to daemontools. *shiver* But I don't think I can install any kind of Cog linux VM on a server. I've seen two experts try and it was an ugly sight.

Perhaps this explanation just shows my ignorance and somebody will point out what I don't understand. I'm ready for that.
But if not, if the only way to install Cog is to compile Cog, then Houston, we have a problem.

Chris

tty

Re: a Cog BASH install script, please (as opposed to using 'make install')

Hi Chris,

If you download from svn co http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog

In the build directory for each configuration there exists a Bash script that does this. Its name is 'mvm'

HTH.

tty

Chris Cunnington-4

Re: a Cog BASH install script, please (as opposed to using 'make install')

On Jun 15, 2014, at 2:28 PM, gettimothy <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Chris,

If you download from svn co http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog

In the build directory for each configuration there exists a Bash script that does this. Its name is 'mvm'

http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog/build.linux32x86/squeak.cog.v3/build/mvm

Thank you very much. This looks like a great tool to explore. I must confess that I'm unfamiliar with Cog sources in the Subversion directory. Owing to the complexity of what I've looked at and how HowToBuild is 1350 words in Microsoft Word, and at the risk of appearing facetious, I feel somewhat that you're making my point for me.

The source of VMs I'm more familiar with at mirandabanda.org is almost perfect for my needs. I'm going to try to hack together a script or Makefile to accomplish what I'm thinking of. At the very least, the attempt will clear up some misconceptions I have about scripts and Makefiles. If this is just about directories and scripts and placing what comes from mirandabanda.org in the right locations, then it should be OK. If it's about linking, then I don't suppose it's going to work out.

I do think that a clearer demarkation between the end users of VMs and the developers of VMs might be accomplished. The only place they seem to meet is in the All-In-One download.

Cheers,

Chris

HTH.

tty

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: a Cog BASH install script, please (as opposed to using 'make install')

In reply to this post by Chris Cunnington-4

Hi Chris,

On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Chris Cunnington <[hidden email]> wrote:

The short answer (could be wrong):

Almost nobody can compile Cog from sources. That means that almost nobody can install Cog in the appropriate way on Linux. This means a BASH script that does what "make install" does would be a good thing.

The long answer (still could be wrong):

I ranted recently about installer scripts for VMs. Afterward I wasn't even sure what I was talking about. I was sure I'd seen two expert programmers have a hellish time trying to install Cog on Linux servers. I don't have that problem, because I don't install. I just put the vm on the command line and use.

When I suggested to these programmers that they should do the same, if they could have reached through the screen, they would have slapped me. But what was going on?

They both tried to compile Cog from sources, not because it's a fun thing to do, but in hindsight, I think they were doing it, because they thought it was the only way to install it on Linux. You need to execute:

make

before you can install:

make install

If they could have just done the second part, I think they would have. But I think it necessitated the first part. Perhaps pre-compiled Cog binaries should come with a Makefile for "make install"?

I have to say I'm surprised by this. To install a Cog VM, simply download one of the archives from my site (e.g. http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3003/coglinuxht-14.24.3003.tgz), unpack it using tar xzvf coglinuxht-14.24.3003.tgz, and run coglinuxht/squeak. You may want to add a sources file to the coglinuxht/lib/squeak/4.0-3003/ directory there-in (not included to save space). But other than that the install is straight-forward.

I remember watching one programmer do it and talk on Squeak IM at the same time. The consensus with another expert level programmer was that Eliot's way ( Hi, Eliot !) of building VMs was particular to him and not really a process for wide consumption. What does that mean? I have no idea. If you want to comb through the Squeak IM transcripts of the last four-five months, you'll find it.

My way of building linux VMs is the autoconf way that Ian Piumarta wrote, that seems to work for me. I'm told CMake is an improvement and that's on its way (thanks to Timothy). But that's not how I would install a VM. I'd download a prebuilt one, e.g. from mirandabanda.org.

HTH

Eliot releases his VMs, which are wonderful, with a script called squeak. I think that's just for starting images on the command line. I went back to r2151 and it comes with two scripts - squeak and squeak.sh. They appear to do the same thing. Then I went back to r1596 to see how I successfully installed a VM on a Linux box in 2006. I think anybody could use "make" and then "make install" back then. I don't think it came with a script for starting on the command line.

On Friday I made the squeak.org homepage run on CogSpur. I did it by doing horrible things to daemontools. *shiver* But I don't think I can install any kind of Cog linux VM on a server. I've seen two experts try and it was an ugly sight.

Perhaps this explanation just shows my ignorance and somebody will point out what I don't understand. I'm ready for that.
But if not, if the only way to install Cog is to compile Cog, then Houston, we have a problem.

Chris

--
best,

Eliot