can you say to alex that edges are slow?

>> Yes, we will do this.
>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>
>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>
> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>
> Alexandre
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>
>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>
>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>
>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>
>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>
>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>
>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D  
>>>>>
>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>
>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>
>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

>
> You can fing t image here:
> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>
> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>
>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>
>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>
>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>
>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Ok, I understand.
>
> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or  
> use a moose cache.
> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>
> You can fing t image here:
> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>
> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is  
>>> computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>
>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>
>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when  
>> defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is  
>> done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed  
>> just once.
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>
>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you  
>>>> use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a  
>>>> complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting  
>>>> from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is  
>>>>> clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem  
>>>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>
>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with  
>>>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate  
>>>>> frequently visualization.
>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do  
>>>>> this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot  
>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with  
>>>>>> the zOrder.
>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't  
>>>>>>> move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and  
>>>>>>> I had the same problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use  
>>>>>> Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem  
>>>>>> comes from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you  
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian  
>>>>>>>> is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is  
>>>>>>>>> really a problem...
>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I  
>>>>>>>>>> hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently  
>>>>>>>>>> working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it  
>>>>>>>>>>>> is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not  
>>>>>>>>>>>> exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows... I think the edges are causing this problem,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi Jannik,
>
> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>
> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>
>> Ok, I understand.
>>
>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>
>> You can fing t image here:
>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>
>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>
>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi all,
>
> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
> So, what is done with bluprint:
>
> Load Moose in Moose,
> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
> It is easier like that :)
>
> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
> compute all the time.
> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
> things that we can do ?

> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>
>> Hi Jannik,
>>
>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>> decompression fails.
>>
>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new  
>> script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the  
>> size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is  
>> problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation  
>> too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of  
>> where the problem is.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>
>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script,  
>>> or use a moose cache.
>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>
>>> You can fing t image here:
>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is  
>>>>> computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>
>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when  
>>>> defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is  
>>>> done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed  
>>>> just once.
>>>>
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you  
>>>>>> use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a  
>>>>>> complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting  
>>>>>> from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is  
>>>>>>> clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem  
>>>>>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with  
>>>>>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate  
>>>>>>> frequently visualization.
>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can  
>>>>>>> do this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot  
>>>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with  
>>>>>>>> the zOrder.
>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried  
>>>>>>>>> again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can  
>>>>>>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the  
>>>>>>>> problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let  
>>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and  
>>>>>>>>>> edges.
>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez  
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is  
>>>>>>>>>>> really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently  
>>>>>>>>>>>> working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows... I think the edges are causing this  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi Jannik,
>
> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>
>> Load Moose in Moose,
>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>> It is easier like that :)
>>
>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>
> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doru
>
>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>
>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>
>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>
>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>
>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi Doru,
>
> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
> Now, the problem is more general:
> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>
> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.
>
> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>
>> Hi Jannik,
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>
>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>
>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>>
>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>
>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doru
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>
>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi Doru,
>
> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
> Now, the problem is more general:
> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make  
> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>
> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the  
> cache system, not each work we do.
>
> Cheers,
> Jannik
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>
>> Hi Jannik,
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>
>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>
>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
>>> compute all the time.
>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
>>> things that we can do ?
>>
>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we  
>> want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is  
>> why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want  
>> as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>
>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>>>> decompression fails.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new  
>>>> script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the  
>>>> size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is  
>>>> problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation  
>>>> too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of  
>>>> where the problem is.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doru
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the  
>>>>> script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which  
>>>>>>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when  
>>>>>> defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh  
>>>>>> is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really  
>>>>>> computed just once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics  
>>>>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce  
>>>>>>>> a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem,  
>>>>>>>> starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is  
>>>>>>>>> clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem  
>>>>>>>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with  
>>>>>>>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we  
>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>> can do this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot  
>>>>>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced  
>>>>>>>>>> with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I  
>>>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can  
>>>>>>>>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the  
>>>>>>>>>> problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let  
>>>>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes  
>>>>>>>>>>>> and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez  
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>
>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're  
>> fighting is the right one."
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> I can add something like:
> MOShape>>enableCache
> MOShape>>disableCache
>
> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>
>> Hi Doru,
>>
>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>> Now, the problem is more general:
>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make  
>> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>
>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate  
>> the cache system, not each work we do.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>
>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>
>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
>>>> compute all the time.
>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
>>>> things that we can do ?
>>>
>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if  
>>> we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That  
>>> is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we  
>>> want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>>>>> decompression fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a  
>>>>> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets  
>>>>> the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation  
>>>>> is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this  
>>>>> computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get  
>>>>> an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the  
>>>>>> script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which  
>>>>>>>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide  
>>>>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a  
>>>>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really  
>>>>>>> computed just once.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics  
>>>>>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you  
>>>>>>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the  
>>>>>>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is  
>>>>>>>>>> clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem  
>>>>>>>>>> comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by  
>>>>>>>>>> scripting.
>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with  
>>>>>>>>>> modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is  
>>>>>>>>>> useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we  
>>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>>> can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot  
>>>>>>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced  
>>>>>>>>>>> with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can  
>>>>>>>>>>> use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the  
>>>>>>>>>>> problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let  
>>>>>>>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're  
>>> fighting is the right one."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>
>> Load Moose in Moose,
>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>> It is easier like that :)
>
> How can I generate the outgoing blueprint. I do not see the option in the Moose 4.0 one-click image (cf screenshot).
> <Screen shot 2010-06-09 at 16.06.53.png>
>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>
> It depends what you want to achieve actually. So far, shape dimensions are mapped to some metrics using width: and height:. Mondrian do not cache them. It could, but one would expect that the represented model cache them.
> If I introduce a cache mechanism, when should I invalidate the cache? This is not clear to me...
>
>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>
> It has been compatible so far. Why would it change?
>
> Alexandre
>
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>
>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>
>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>
>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>
>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> I can add something like:
> MOShape>>enableCache
> MOShape>>disableCache
>
> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre
>
> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>
>> Hi Doru,
>>
>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>> Now, the problem is more general:
>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>
>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jannik
>>
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>
>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>
>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>>>
>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doru
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> There is something not clear for me :)
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:19 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>> I can add something like:
>> MOShape>>enableCache
>> MOShape>>disableCache
>>
>> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Doru,
>>>
>>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>>> Now, the problem is more general:
>>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make  
>>> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>>
>>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate  
>>> the cache system, not each work we do.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>>
>>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>>
>>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
>>>>> compute all the time.
>>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
>>>>> things that we can do ?
>>>>
>>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if  
>>>> we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That  
>>>> is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we  
>>>> want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doru
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>>>>>> decompression fails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a  
>>>>>> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets  
>>>>>> the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation  
>>>>>> is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this  
>>>>>> computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to  
>>>>>> get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the  
>>>>>>> script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which  
>>>>>>>>> is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide  
>>>>>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a  
>>>>>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really  
>>>>>>>> computed just once.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics  
>>>>>>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you  
>>>>>>>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the  
>>>>>>>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it  
>>>>>>>>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this  
>>>>>>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by  
>>>>>>>>>>> scripting.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable  
>>>>>>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is  
>>>>>>>>>>> useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we  
>>>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>>>> can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced  
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You  
>>>>>>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where  
>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>
>>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're  
>>>> fighting is the right one."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> ---
> Jannik Laval
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

> Hi,
>
>> yes but there is something that I don't understand:
>> why each node and edges does not keep these state ?
>> width and height are cool to keep, but this is the same problem for  
>> color, border....
>> Each of them could have computation beside; so the problem is in  
>> general.
>>
>> Maybe my vision is naive but if each node and edge keep its state,  
>> we do not need a cache or multiple computations.
>
> This is the correct point of view. The invalidation of the  
> visualization should be controlled by the developer.
>
> Doru
>
>
>> There is something not clear for me :)
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 22:19 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>
>>> I can add something like:
>>> MOShape>>enableCache
>>> MOShape>>disableCache
>>>
>>> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per  
>>> node.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Doru,
>>>>
>>>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>>>> Now, the problem is more general:
>>>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make  
>>>> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>>>
>>>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate  
>>>> the cache system, not each work we do.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
>>>>>> compute all the time.
>>>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
>>>>>> things that we can do ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if  
>>>>> we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :).  
>>>>> That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering  
>>>>> is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the  
>>>>> benchmark.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>>>>>>> decompression fails.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a  
>>>>>>> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and  
>>>>>>> sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the  
>>>>>>> computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls  
>>>>>>> this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us  
>>>>>>> to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the  
>>>>>>>> script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics  
>>>>>>>>>> (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the  
>>>>>>>>>> canvas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide  
>>>>>>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a  
>>>>>>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really  
>>>>>>>>> computed just once.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics  
>>>>>>>>>>> you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you  
>>>>>>>>>>> produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the  
>>>>>>>>>>> problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it  
>>>>>>>>>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this  
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by  
>>>>>>>>>>>> scripting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable  
>>>>>>>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>>>>> is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we  
>>>>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>>>>> can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem...  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to other windows... I think the edges are  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're  
>>>>> fighting is the right one."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>> ---
>> Jannik Laval
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "It's not how it is, it is how we see it."
>

>
> On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>> I can add something like:
>> MOShape>>enableCache
>> MOShape>>disableCache
>>
>> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alexandre
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Doru,
>>>
>>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>>> Now, the problem is more general:
>>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>>
>>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jannik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>>
>>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>>
>>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>>>>
>>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doru
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>
>>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Jannik Laval
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
>
> "It's not how it is, it is how we see it."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Moose-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev

>> If you want to update the visualization you should redo it via another means.
>
> Yes. I am working on this right now. It shouldn't be too hard
>
> Alexandre
>
>>
>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>
>>> I can add something like:
>>> MOShape>>enableCache
>>> MOShape>>disableCache
>>>
>>> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per node.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alexandre
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Doru,
>>>>
>>>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>>>> Now, the problem is more general:
>>>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>>>
>>>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate the cache system, not each work we do.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jannik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian compute all the time.
>>>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all things that we can do ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :). That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the benchmark.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doru
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the decompression fails.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian calls this computation too many times. Using such a script allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the canvas.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really computed just once.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for optimization. But I would like to be sure that the metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by scripting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting language.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem... But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in general is slow, but sometimes is impossible (or takes more than 1 min) to move the scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think the edges are causing this problem, but i am not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
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>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>
>> "It's not how it is, it is how we see it."
>>
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>
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>
>>> enableCache should always be on. When exactly don't we want that? :)
>>
>> When used with Moose yes. But you may want to see changes in a view  
>> when you change your model.
>
> but then you invalidate the cache of the associated nodes and edges.
>
>
>>> If you want to update the visualization you should redo it via  
>>> another means.
>>
>> Yes. I am working on this right now. It shouldn't be too hard
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 22:19, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can add something like:
>>>> MOShape>>enableCache
>>>> MOShape>>disableCache
>>>>
>>>> In that case, width: and height: will be computed just once per  
>>>> node.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Alexandre
>>>>
>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:09, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Doru,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, we will see the computation in blueprint, and make a cache.
>>>>> Now, the problem is more general:
>>>>> I have the same problem with eDSM: Some edges and nodes make  
>>>>> computation during rendering, which slow down the visualization.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, my question is more general: maybe Mondrian should integrate  
>>>>> the cache system, not each work we do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 21:58 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 17:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arf, the transmission of the file has probably failed.
>>>>>>> So, what is done with bluprint:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Load Moose in Moose,
>>>>>>> Take all model packages, generate outgoing blueprint.
>>>>>>> It is easier like that :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, there is something that I do not understand: why Mondrian  
>>>>>>> compute all the time.
>>>>>>> Should not it compute one time and put in cache results ?
>>>>>>> If it is done in Mondrian, it will be more compatible with all  
>>>>>>> things that we can do ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not saying that Mondrian is doing that, I am saying that  
>>>>>> if we want to debug the problem we want to isolate the case :).  
>>>>>> That is why, if we just want to see how slow/fast the rendering  
>>>>>> is, we want as less extra computation as possible in the  
>>>>>> benchmark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 17:06 , Tudor Girba wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Jannik,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Something seems to be wrong with the zip file because the  
>>>>>>>> decompression fails.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want to try just the perfromance, please just create a  
>>>>>>>> new script that explicitly creates the nodes and edges and  
>>>>>>>> sets the size and color of shapes. It could be that the  
>>>>>>>> computation is problematic, or it could be that Mondrian  
>>>>>>>> calls this computation too many times. Using such a script  
>>>>>>>> allows us to get an idea of where the problem is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:23, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, I understand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So the perfect thing is to compute all metrics before the  
>>>>>>>>> script, or use a moose cache.
>>>>>>>>> I think that blueprint use cook, with a cache.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can fing t image here:
>>>>>>>>> http://jannik-laval.eu/assets/files/blueprint.zip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 16:08 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we will do this.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now, I do not understand the relation between metrics  
>>>>>>>>>>> (which is computed before visualization) and scrolling the  
>>>>>>>>>>> canvas.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Does Mondrian compute something when we scroll ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian itself no. But it evaluates the block you provide  
>>>>>>>>>> when defining shape (e.g., height: and width:) each time a  
>>>>>>>>>> refresh is done. Which occurs when you scroll.
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to verify if the metrics you use are really  
>>>>>>>>>> computed just once.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 15:46 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It absolutely possible that I missed opportunities for  
>>>>>>>>>>>> optimization. But I would like to be sure that the  
>>>>>>>>>>>> metrics you use are not responsible for the slowness. Can  
>>>>>>>>>>>> you produce a complete sequence on how I can reproduce  
>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem, starting from a Moose one-click image?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 Jun 2010, at 09:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just see Package Blueprint working on Pharo1.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Remi shows a case study :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a visualization of 50 packages (so, not a lot), it  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is clearly difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not an edges problem, I do not know if this  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem comes from Mondrian or Morphic...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But for sure, it is not attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian exists to generate faster visualization by  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the visualization is not scrollable, and not usable  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with modern computers as we have, do you think Mondrian  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is useful ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is here: We write one time the script, we  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate frequently visualization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users prefer a fast visualization than a fast scripting  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The perfect is to have the two. And I think that  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian can do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do work on it (an engineer ?).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my reflexion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 14:24 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already tried with a complex case.  Indeed it is a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot faster than before, thank you :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what I would expect. There was a bug introduced  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the zOrder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should have similar speed up on pharo 1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The #5 is a treeLayout (with less edges) and on it I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't move the scrollbar.. got stuck for minutes. I  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried again, and I had the same problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure that the problem comes from Mondrian? You  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can use Kai, the profiler I worked on to easily see  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the problem comes from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KaiProfiler viewProfiling: [ "your code here" ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.squeaksource.com/Spy.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will check if i am doing something different for that  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visualization (thought is the simplest one), and will  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let you know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08 Jun 2010, at 14:46, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Veronica (and Jannik),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem should now be fixed. The last version of  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mondrian is 3 times faster when displaying inner  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nodes and edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it solve your problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2010, at 05:27, Veronica Isabel Uquillas  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inspecting visualizations when many edges are  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present is really a problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any improvement with respect to this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 22:53, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. I have a set of benchmarks that noticed a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slowdown. I hope this will be addressed soon (a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> student is currently working on it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24 Apr 2010, at 07:59, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The script make a while and crash the image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 23:07 , Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik, can you try to generate a DSM with the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version Mondrian-Alexandre_Bergel.355.mcz and  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell me whether it is faster or not ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess Veronica can not do it since dashed lines  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not exist in 355.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Laval Jannik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the same for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With an eDSM, it is really difficult to scroll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already make some reports of this problem...  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I am not sure it is caused by edges.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 21:31 , Veronica Isabel  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uquillas Gomez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alexandre,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when my visualizations have many elements in  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general is slow, but sometimes is impossible  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or takes more than 1 min) to move the  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrollbar or switch to other windows... I think  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the edges are causing this problem, but i am  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will send you an example of this case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Veronica
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 20:09, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are edges slower than before? I recently  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed a slowdown, but it is not that apparent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many edges are intended to be defined?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Apr 2010, at 13:41, stephane ducasse  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you do not tell him, he will never notice  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First Rule: give feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Every thing should have the right to be different."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're  
>>>>>> fighting is the right one."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Jannik Laval
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>
>>> "It's not how it is, it is how we see it."
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev
>>
>>
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