muO screencast
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hello,
I have started making screencasts demonstrating the muO system for experimental musical composition, currently based on Squeak 3.8 here is the reading by a thorough user (myself :) of a piece of interactive documentation: http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/tour1/tour.html Stef |
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Oh wow, cool man. I'll check that out as soon as I get home. Thanks for putting this together!
2010/4/2 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> hello, |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin
Stéphane,
The same presentation with sound would have been incredible. You'd have to agree that it's bit weird to present a musical composition system by its look only. The first thing I want to know when I look at it is what kind of sounds and music it produces. :) Ian. 2010/4/2 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]>: > hello, > > I have started making screencasts demonstrating the muO system for > experimental musical composition, currently based on Squeak 3.8 > > here is the reading by a thorough user (myself :) of a piece of interactive > documentation: > > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/tour1/tour.html > > Stef > > > > -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
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> The same presentation with sound would have been incredible. You'd
> have to agree that it's bit weird to present a musical composition > system by its look only. The first thing I want to know when I look at > it is what kind of sounds and music it produces. :) yeah, I know it's ridiculous. the problem is that I cannot record sound along with screen on my lousy computer :( Stef |
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2010/4/2 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]>:
>> The same presentation with sound would have been incredible. You'd >> have to agree that it's bit weird to present a musical composition >> system by its look only. The first thing I want to know when I look at >> it is what kind of sounds and music it produces. :) > > yeah, I know it's ridiculous. the problem is that I cannot record sound > along with screen on my lousy computer :( I understand. You could perhaps add a music created by muO as a background music to the video. A simple video editing software would allow you to do that even on a lousy computer. It's better than nothing, really. Nothing is awful. Ian. -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin
Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
> hello, > > I have started making screencasts demonstrating the muO system for > experimental musical composition, currently based on Squeak 3.8 > > here is the reading by a thorough user (myself :) of a piece of > interactive documentation: > > http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/tour1/tour.html > > Stef > > That will be a killer iPad app, especially if you can add voice-over annotations for the tutorials. Lawson |
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In reply to this post by Ian Trudel-2
i don't exactly understand the "ridiculous" part...
what "lousy computer" are you using to make such an interesting program? just curious of your setup. i will try to follow along this weekend and see what it sounds like. mostly - THANK YOU... you are finding ways to make this more interesting than it already was. BRAVO!!! ken ----- Original Message ---- From: Ian Trudel <[hidden email]> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]> Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 3:56:26 PM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] muO screencast 2010/4/2 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]>: >> The same presentation with sound would have been incredible. You'd >> have to agree that it's bit weird to present a musical composition >> system by its look only. The first thing I want to know when I look at >> it is what kind of sounds and music it produces. :) > > yeah, I know it's ridiculous. the problem is that I cannot record sound > along with screen on my lousy computer :( I understand. You could perhaps add a music created by muO as a background music to the video. A simple video editing software would allow you to do that even on a lousy computer. It's better than nothing, really. Nothing is awful. Ian. -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by LawsonEnglish
> especially if you can add voice-over
> annotations for the tutorials. I agree in priciple (despite my strong french accent), but here the tutorial is only an interactive perusing of some already existing written documentation; what would be the point in a voice-over repeating what is written and can be read easily just by hitting the pause button ? The real documentation is in the muO image, and is much more fun than a screencast... regards, Stef |
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In reply to this post by Ian Trudel-2
> I understand. You could perhaps add a music created by muO as a
> background music to the video. About the "music created by muO" part: muO is best seen as an ecosystem of reified musical concepts and representations, that requires from its end-user that he actually understands what he is doing and what kind of data he is processing, and how. As far as composition is concerned, it's up to the composer to do the work. The software only (tremendously) helps. The screencast here only illustrates the composition by projection paradigm; it shows a musical phrase being sculpted and constantly changing. Well at most times that "musical" phrase would just sound awful ! So, muO does not create music per se. Of course an interactive toy for fast and easy music making could be built using muO; as such it would be a kind of composition in itself. best, Stef |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin
Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
>> especially if you can add voice-over >> annotations for the tutorials. > > I agree in priciple (despite my strong french accent), but here the > tutorial is only an interactive perusing of some already existing > written documentation; what would be the point in a voice-over > repeating what is written and can be read easily just by hitting the > pause button ? > > The real documentation is in the muO image, and is much more fun than > a screencast... > > regards, > Actually, not everyone learns well by reading, and it is difficult to read and watch a demonstration at the same time. Lawson |
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> Actually, not everyone learns well by reading, and it is difficult to
> read and watch a demonstration at the same time. As I said, just hit the pause button, and the demonstration stops. I am just *not* going to double the already existing documentation by screencasts with voice-over. I much prefer spend the time it would require setting-up some more documentation since there is still a lot to cover. I am actually a bit surprised by these expectations about screencasts I got from you and Ian. As Squeak users, I would expect people on this list to prefer the actual interaction with the software and its interactive documentation over a plain and dumb screencast. It is much more fun and meaningful to learn about muO from inside muO, just as it is the case for Squeak itself. regards, Stef |
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Stéphane,
What was your objective when you have created this screencast? Reading your messages makes me believe that the documentation is good enough to not need any screencast. It may not be useful in respect to documentation. You are however talking about a demo. A demo is a mean to grab people's attention and subsequent interest in your project. In that respect, I believe you are misusing your greatest asset: sound. Music and sounds created by muO playing in background would be more than enough even without a voice over. It's a good tradeoff anyway. Many of us are also very busy. You make the assumption that we would rush to try your system right away. Yet I had to contact you to obtain muO's homepage because it wasn't all that clear. I like the approach that you have undertaken for your system and I hope to be able to try it some time later but it is pooled after whatever else have to be done first. My point is that your demo (and whole project) fight for our attention against many other things. On top of that you expect us to "buy" a sound system by looking at its colours... and by pressing pause once in a while to admire the blinks. Now I may be a bit too business minded but that would "sell" squat. :p I am sure that trying will unveil a wonderful system but this is as long as you get people's attention and interest long enough for them to download your system and actually try it. Besides, it is just feedback rather than expectations and you can do however you please. No worries. :) Ian. 2010/4/3 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]>: >> Actually, not everyone learns well by reading, and it is difficult to >> read and watch a demonstration at the same time. > > As I said, just hit the pause button, and the demonstration stops. I am just > *not* going to double the already existing documentation by screencasts with > voice-over. I much prefer spend the time it would require setting-up some > more documentation since there is still a lot to cover. > > I am actually a bit surprised by these expectations about screencasts I got > from you and Ian. As Squeak users, I would expect people on this list to > prefer the actual interaction with the software and its interactive > documentation over a plain and dumb screencast. It is much more fun and > meaningful to learn about muO from inside muO, just as it is the case for > Squeak itself. > > regards, > > Stef > > > > -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
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> Stéphane,
> > What was your objective when you have created this screencast? I don't remember exactly when, but clearly at some point someone told me I should do screencasts :) This screencast I just uploaded is there for me to point to whenever there is a need for it. That's pretty much all there is to it. Since it shows how to use the documentation, it is also a kind of introduction to the documentation, so to say. The bottom line is that I find it very difficult to explain what muO is and how it works to people that do not know what is Squeak. So the screencast is also an introduction to Morphic, hopefully useful in demonstrating what I mean when I say that the software is very dynamic. > Reading > your messages makes me believe that the documentation is good enough > to not need any screencast. Definitely. There is not enough of it, by far, but hopefully the existing documentation is good. > A demo is a mean > to grab people's attention and subsequent interest in your project. In > that respect, I believe you are misusing your greatest asset: sound. > Music and sounds created by muO playing in background would be more > than enough even without a voice over. It's a good tradeoff anyway. You are probably right but it is definitely not my goal to grab people's attention in such a general manner. I know for sure that only a tiny fraction of the computer music community would be interested in muO. I try to gather enough good-quality pieces of information for having such people simply know that muO exists; it is clear from my point of view that once they are aware of this, it's up to them to go further. Actually it would really bother me if suddenly two thousand people were to believe they can make music easily with muO. It is just not the case. muO is difficult to use. I am convinced it can be very useful to a handful of people, as much as I am convinced it is much too complex and demanding for everybody else. Also I have to disagree that my greatest asset is sound. It is not. I am not a good enough composer to dare attract people with my sounds :) > Many of us are also very busy. You make the assumption that we would > rush to try your system right away. I think you're making an assumption about my assumptions :) I just made public a screencast; nothing more. Since Edgar put muO in its FunSqueak image I reckoned there might be an interest here about this. The funny thing to me at this point is that it took you more time to discuss the screencast with me than to: see the screencast, google "muo squeak", download the image, play with the documentation, hear sounds. I appreciate your feedback, but I don't understand why the feedback is about the screencast, not about muO. Something went the wrong route here :) > On top of that you expect us to "buy" a sound system Please, why should any piece of information be considered advertising ? I really don't get it. I have nothing to sell, there is nothing to buy. I have no interest whatsoever for the wrong kind of persons getting in touch with me about a piece of software that is not for them. I'm definitely not advertising muO. muO has been there for years, evolving quietly; from time to time I make a little noise about it here and there, some people contact me and it's ok like that. My domain is research, not marketing. I despise marketing. Please don't confuse me with a salesman; it's insulting. regards, Stef |
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Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
>> Stéphane, >> >> What was your objective when you have created this screencast? > > I don't remember exactly when, but clearly at some point someone told > me I should do screencasts :) > > This screencast I just uploaded is there for me to point to whenever > there is a need for it. That's pretty much all there is to it. > > Since it shows how to use the documentation, it is also a kind of > introduction to the documentation, so to say. > > The bottom line is that I find it very difficult to explain what muO > is and how it works to people that do not know what is Squeak. So the > screencast is also an introduction to Morphic, hopefully useful in > demonstrating what I mean when I say that the software is very dynamic. > >> Reading >> your messages makes me believe that the documentation is good enough >> to not need any screencast. > > Definitely. There is not enough of it, by far, but hopefully the > existing documentation is good. > > >> A demo is a mean >> to grab people's attention and subsequent interest in your project. In >> that respect, I believe you are misusing your greatest asset: sound. >> Music and sounds created by muO playing in background would be more >> than enough even without a voice over. It's a good tradeoff anyway. > > You are probably right but it is definitely not my goal to grab > people's attention in such a general manner. I know for sure that only > a tiny fraction of the computer music community would be interested in > muO. I try to gather enough good-quality pieces of information for > having such people simply know that muO exists; it is clear from my > point of view that once they are aware of this, it's up to them to go > further. > > Actually it would really bother me if suddenly two thousand people > were to believe they can make music easily with muO. It is just not > the case. muO is difficult to use. I am convinced it can be very > useful to a handful of people, as much as I am convinced it is much > too complex and demanding for everybody else. > > Also I have to disagree that my greatest asset is sound. It is not. I > am not a good enough composer to dare attract people with my sounds :) > > >> Many of us are also very busy. You make the assumption that we would >> rush to try your system right away. > > I think you're making an assumption about my assumptions :) > > I just made public a screencast; nothing more. Since Edgar put muO in > its FunSqueak image I reckoned there might be an interest here about > this. > > The funny thing to me at this point is that it took you more time to > discuss the screencast with me than to: see the screencast, google > "muo squeak", download the image, play with the documentation, hear > sounds. > > I appreciate your feedback, but I don't understand why the feedback is > about the screencast, not about muO. Something went the wrong route > here :) > >> On top of that you expect us to "buy" a sound system > > Please, why should any piece of information be considered advertising > ? I really don't get it. I have nothing to sell, there is nothing to > buy. I have no interest whatsoever for the wrong kind of persons > getting in touch with me about a piece of software that is not for > them. I'm definitely not advertising muO. muO has been there for > years, evolving quietly; from time to time I make a little noise about > it here and there, some people contact me and it's ok like that. > > My domain is research, not marketing. I despise marketing. Please > don't confuse me with a salesman; it's insulting. > > and marketing to make sure people know something is available that they might want to use. Both require many of the same skills, IMHO. Lawson > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin
2010/4/3 Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]>:
> Also I have to disagree that my greatest asset is sound. It is not. I am not > a good enough composer to dare attract people with my sounds :) This is not what I meant anyway. I mean something that would show off what muO is capable of. You have shown me a page with some compositions and it gave me already a better idea. That would be good enough to start with, I would say. >> Many of us are also very busy. You make the assumption that we would >> rush to try your system right away. > > I think you're making an assumption about my assumptions :) We could argue on this one. Not sure it would benefit any of us though. :) > The funny thing to me at this point is that it took you more time to discuss > the screencast with me than to: see the screencast, google "muo squeak", > download the image, play with the documentation, hear sounds. I did better. I have contacted you and then looked around what you've done. > I appreciate your feedback, but I don't understand why the feedback is about > the screencast, not about muO. Something went the wrong route here :) You're right and that's exactly what I am telling you. You have sparked interest in the screencast rather than the system. :P >> On top of that you expect us to "buy" a sound system > > Please, why should any piece of information be considered advertising ? I > really don't get it. I have nothing to sell, there is nothing to buy. I have > no interest whatsoever for the wrong kind of persons getting in touch with > me about a piece of software that is not for them. I'm definitely not > advertising muO. muO has been there for years, evolving quietly; from time > to time I make a little noise about it here and there, some people contact > me and it's ok like that. > > My domain is research, not marketing. I despise marketing. Please don't > confuse me with a salesman; it's insulting. Let's not insult marketing and sales people. :) Are you saying that you don't have to "sell" your ideas for research projects? I have never heard of such thing. Everybody has to convince others of something at some point. > > regards, > > Stef Ian. -- http://mecenia.blogspot.com/ |
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> Are you saying that you don't have to "sell" your ideas for research
> projects? That's the least you can expect when you're doing research on your own. Stef |
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In reply to this post by LawsonEnglish
> A grants proposal is a form of marketing.
Sure, but I'm not asking for a grants. ... although if someone is willing to send me a lot of money, I may accept it, provided that nothing is expected in return :) Stef |
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