Hi all-- Following a suggestion from Ron Teitelbaum, the elected Squeak leadership is considering making Squeak a member project in the Software Freedom Law Center's Software Freedom Conservancy[1, 2]. Here's the Conservancy's description of themselves from their website: *** The Software Freedom Conservancy is an organization composed of Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) projects. As a fiscal sponsor for FOSS projects, the Conservancy provides member projects with free financial and administrative services, but does not involve itself with technological and artistic decisions. By joining the Conservancy, member FOSS projects obtain the benefits of a formal legal structure while keeping themselves focused on software development. These benefits include, most notably, protection from personal liability for project developers. Another benefit of joining the Conservancy is that projects can use it to hold assets, which are managed by the Conservancy on behalf of and at the direction of the project. The Conservancy is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization, so member projects can receive tax-deductible donations to the extent allowed by law. *** Our discussions with them have gone very well, and we now have a proposed membership agreement (for now, at [3]). The Squeak leadership is unanimously in favor of it. Please read this agreement and voice any concerns with it here on squeak-dev. We currently plan to take action on 15 August 2007. thanks! -C [1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org [2] http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org [3] http://netjam.org/squeak/SqueakSponsorshipAgreement.pdf -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] |
Hi Craig -
Sounds interesting. One question: The draft agreement refers to "Free Software" in paragraph 2a which is later used to specify that "The Conservancy will only intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement". Do you know if the Software Freedom Conservancy is okay with Squeak-L as "Free Software" (which is not OSI Open Source(tm) compliant) or whether that makes it dependent on a license change? In particular, would it mean that if the SqF supports activities that use Squeak-L it would trigger the above clause? Just curious, - Andreas Craig Latta wrote: > Hi all-- > > Following a suggestion from Ron Teitelbaum, the elected Squeak > leadership is considering making Squeak a member project in the Software > Freedom Law Center's Software Freedom Conservancy[1, 2]. Here's the > Conservancy's description of themselves from their website: > > *** > > The Software Freedom Conservancy is an organization composed of > Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) projects. As a fiscal sponsor for > FOSS projects, the Conservancy provides member projects with free > financial and administrative services, but does not involve itself with > technological and artistic decisions. > > By joining the Conservancy, member FOSS projects obtain the > benefits of a formal legal structure while keeping themselves focused on > software development. These benefits include, most notably, protection > from personal liability for project developers. Another benefit of > joining the Conservancy is that projects can use it to hold assets, > which are managed by the Conservancy on behalf of and at the direction > of the project. The Conservancy is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization, > so member projects can receive tax-deductible donations to the extent > allowed by law. > > *** > > Our discussions with them have gone very well, and we now have a > proposed membership agreement (for now, at [3]). The Squeak leadership > is unanimously in favor of it. > > Please read this agreement and voice any concerns with it here on > squeak-dev. > > We currently plan to take action on 15 August 2007. > > > thanks! > > -C > > [1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org > [2] http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org > [3] http://netjam.org/squeak/SqueakSponsorshipAgreement.pdf > > -- > Craig Latta > improvisational musical informaticist > www.netjam.org > Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] > > > |
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
Hi All,
In this paragraph: 2b. The Committee Will Manage the Project. Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee, subject at all times to the direction and control of the Conservancy's Board of Directors. The Conservancy will only intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement. The period (.) after Directors should be changed to a colon (:) 2b. The Committee Will Manage the Project. Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee, subject at all times to the direction and control of the Conservancy's Board of Directors: The Conservancy will only intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement. I believe that is a clearer representation of the intention of the paragraph. The following paragraph could use an example. Does this mean for example that fundraising can not use the name Squeak? Or is the intention only to make sure that the Software Freedom Conservancy is associated with all fundraising activities. So for example could we have a Squeak Conference As long as we note on the materials that proceeds are directed to the Software Freedom Conservancy? 2c. Ultimate Responsibility of Project. Subject to Section 2(b) of this Agreement, all community programs, public information work, fundraising events, processing and acknowledgment of cash and noncash revenue items, accounts payable and receivable, negotiation of leases and contracts, disbursement of Project funds (including grants), and other activities planned by the Project shall be the ultimate responsibility of the Conservancy and shall be conducted in the name of the Conservancy, beginning on the Effective Date. Could we add something to this paragraph? 4. Project Fund/Variance Power. Beginning on the Effective Date, the Conservancy shall place all gifts, grants, contributions and other revenues received by the Conservancy and identified with the Project into a Project Fund to be used for the sole benefit of the Project's mission as that mission may be defined by the Committee from time to time with the approval of the Conservancy Add: as defined in Paragraph 2b. The Conservancy retains the unilateral right to spend such funds so as to accomplish the purposes of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's sole judgment, subject to any donor imposed restrictions, as to purpose, on the charitable use of such assets. The parties agree that all money, and the fair market value of all property, deposited in the Project Fund be reported as the income of the Conservancy, for both tax purposes and for purposes of the Conservancy's financial statements. It is the intent of the parties that this Agreement be interpreted to provide the Conservancy with variance powers necessary to enable the Conservancy to treat the Project Fund as the Conservancy's asset in accordance with Financial Accounting Statement No. 136 issued by the Financial Accounting Standards Board, while this Agreement is in effect. I'd suggest some changes to this paragraph 6. Representation of the Project in the Conservancy. The Directors, each a signatory hereto, shall represent the Project in its official capacity with the Conservancy. There shall be seven Directors, elected by the community members of the Project listed on the Project's website at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/ who have a achieved the title Apprentice, Journeyer or Master (the "Community Members"). Add: The election is conducted by the Squeak Elections Team. The Elections Team is assembled of members of the community, each member selected by the Elections Team Leader who is appointed by a majority of the Directors. Each Director shall continue to serve until he or she resigns from the position. [The Directors may be removed from the position at any time by a majority vote of the Community Members.] Upon the resignation or removal of a Director, the Community Members Remove: shall Add: may elect a replacement Director to serve on the Committee Add: at the discretion of the Squeak Elections Team Leader based on the considered impact to the community and the duration of time to server before the next Director election. The Committee will elect [a single/two] individual[s] to communicate with the Conservancy (the "Representative") and shall notify the Conservancy promptly following the election of a new Representative. The Representative will have the authority to instruct the Conservancy on the Project's behalf on all matters. Suggested change: 8d. Termination Without a Successor. If no Successor is found, the Conservancy may Add: , with written agreement between the Conservancy and the Directors, dispose of the Project assets and liabilities in any manner consistent with applicable tax and charitable trust laws. Nice job all! Ron Teitelbaum President / Principal Software Engineer US Medical Record Specialists www.USMedRec.com Squeak Elections Team Member Squeak News Team Leader Squeak Cryptography Team Leader Current Squeak Representative with SFLC for Cryptographic Issues > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Latta > > Hi all-- > > Following a suggestion from Ron Teitelbaum, the elected Squeak > leadership is considering making Squeak a member project in the Software > Freedom Law Center's Software Freedom Conservancy[1, 2]. Here's the > Conservancy's description of themselves from their website: > > *** > > The Software Freedom Conservancy is an organization composed of > Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) projects. As a fiscal sponsor for > FOSS projects, the Conservancy provides member projects with free > financial and administrative services, but does not involve itself with > technological and artistic decisions. > > By joining the Conservancy, member FOSS projects obtain the > benefits of a formal legal structure while keeping themselves focused on > software development. These benefits include, most notably, protection > from personal liability for project developers. Another benefit of > joining the Conservancy is that projects can use it to hold assets, > which are managed by the Conservancy on behalf of and at the direction > of the project. The Conservancy is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization, > so member projects can receive tax-deductible donations to the extent > allowed by law. > > *** > > Our discussions with them have gone very well, and we now have a > proposed membership agreement (for now, at [3]). The Squeak leadership > is unanimously in favor of it. > > Please read this agreement and voice any concerns with it here on > squeak-dev. > > We currently plan to take action on 15 August 2007. > > > thanks! > > -C > > [1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org > [2] http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org > [3] http://netjam.org/squeak/SqueakSponsorshipAgreement.pdf > > -- > Craig Latta > improvisational musical informaticist > www.netjam.org > Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] > |
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
I've been out for a couple of weeks so I didn't see any posting about the SFC before. Has there been? It's an interesting move. Maintaining a non-profit, filing tax forms each years, (etc) can be a pain. Nice to have someone else do it, as long as the focus is on Squeak and not SFC. Here are my comments == B: Last sentence: "The Committee desires to manage the Project under the sponsorship of the Conservancy." Maybe it should read: "The Committee desires the Conservancy to manage the Project's funds under the sponsorship of the Conservancy." Less ambiguous, we don't want them to manage Squeak. Especially since A. defines the purpose of the Project to produce and distrubute free software and 2b states that Squeak is responsible for the technical and artistic direction. == 2b "Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee, subject at all times to the direction and control of the Conservancy's Board of Directors. The Conservancy will only intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement." Why would the Conservancy's Board be in total control of the direction of Squeak? I know why they put the second half of the 1st sentence. In case an artistic/technical direction interferes with the management of funds, then they want to make sure they have control. But, in my mind, it tilts the contract toward them and not to the benefit of Squeak. I think the last sentence suffices and doesn't allow them total control. I would strike that partial sentence. This is better: "Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee. The Conservancy will only intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement." == 4. Why does the conservancy have the power to approve the distribution of the money for Squeak? For instance, this is troubling: "... The Conservancy retains the unilateral right to spend such funds so as to accomplish the purposes of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's sole judgment," And, it doesn't jive with their website which states: "any monies received by a project are put in a separate Conservancy fund and maintained there until the project directs the Conservancy to do something with the funds." I would reword this so the Committee has equal power: "4. Project Fund/Variance Power. Beginning on the Effective Date, the Conservancy shall place all gifts, grants, contributions and other revenues received by the Conservancy and identified with the Project into a Project Fund to be used for the sole benefit of the Project's mission as that mission may be defined by the Committee from time to time with the approval of the Conservancy. The Conservancy shall spend such funds only to accomplish the purposes of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's and Committee's judgment, subject to any donorimposed restrictions, as to purpose, on the charitable use of such assets. The parties agree that all money, and the fair market value of all property, deposited in the Project Fund be reported as the income of the Conservancy, for both tax purposes and for purposes of the Conservancy's financial statements. It is the intent of the parties that this Agreement be interpreted to provide the Conservancy with variance powers necessary to enable the Conservancy to treat the Project Fund as the Conservancy’s asset in accordance with Financial Accounting Statement No. 136 issued by the Financial Accounting Standards Board, while this Agreement is in effect." == 8. Can Squeak, with non-profit status, be its own successor? I would think so. Nice to have a plan if it doesn't work out. == 9. I always try to move the area to California. It's much more expensive to deal out-of-state (you have to find an attorney that can practice in that state, etc.) == Finally. Have you reviewed other entities that offer services like SFC? Have you spoke with the Samba or the Wine teams about their experience with SFC? If not, it would be prudent to do so. It would also be good to get a look at their contract with SFC. brad |
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
Hi all-- Thanks for the feedback! In this message I address the issues raised by Andreas Raab, Brad Fuller, and Ron Teitelbaum. *** Andreas Raab writes: > The draft agreement refers to "Free Software" in paragraph 2a which is > later used to specify that "The Conservancy will only intervene in the > program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with > Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement". Do you know if the > Software Freedom Conservancy is okay with Squeak-L as "Free Software" > (which is not OSI Open Source(tm) compliant) or whether that makes it > dependent on a license change? I've spoken with them about our effort[1] to move to an MIT-style license. They understand that we'll be using the original Squeak license until we finish sorting things out, and that's okay with them. > In particular, would it mean that if the SqF supports activities that > use Squeak-L it would trigger the above clause? No. *** Brad Fuller writes: > I've been out for a couple of weeks so I didn't see any posting about > the SFC before. Has there been? Yes, on 3 July 2007 (see [2]). > It's an interesting move. Maintaining a non-profit, filing tax forms > each years, (etc) can be a pain. Nice to have someone else do it, as > long as the focus is on Squeak and not SFC. I'm confident that's how it'll be. > > [From recital B:] The Committee desires to manage the Project under > > the sponsorship of the Conservancy. > > Maybe it should read "The Committee desires the Conservancy to manage > the Project's funds under the sponsorship of the Conservancy.". > > Less ambiguous, we don't want them to manage Squeak. Especially since > [recital] A defines the purpose of the Project to produce and > distribute free software and [paragraph] 2b states that Squeak is > responsible for the technical and artistic direction. The Conservancy suggests adding the following sentence to recital C: "The Conservancy expects to make such expenditures at the direction of the Project in the ordinary course of the Project's operations." So, the entire recital C would read: "The Conservancy's Board of Directors has approved the establishment of a fund to receive donations of cash and other property earmarked for support of the Project and to make disbursements in furtherance of the Project’s mission (the “Project Fund”). The Conservancy expects to make such expenditures at the direction of the Project in the ordinary course of the Project's operations.Currently, the principal office of the Project is located at [Craig's mailing address]." I think this addresses the issue. > > 2b. "Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the > > Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to > > the Committee, subject at all times to the direction and control of > > the Conservancy's Board of Directors. The Conservancy will only > > intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not > > in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement." > > Why would the Conservancy's Board be in total control of the direction > of Squeak? They have to have that authority in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. True, this involves some risk on our part. I think it's worth doing, though. From my conversations with them, and my research about their goals and other member projects, I trust them. We can always terminate the agreement if things go really wrong. > Why does the conservancy have the power to approve the distribution of > the money for Squeak? Again, they have to have that power in order to satisfy the US IRS. This is apparently to prevent situations like a member project using funds to aid political campaigns. > For instance, this is troubling: "... The Conservancy retains the > unilateral right to spend such funds so as to accomplish the purposes > of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's sole > judgment..." > > And, it doesn't jive with their website which states: > > "any monies received by a project are put in a separate Conservancy > fund and maintained there until the project directs the Conservancy to > do something with the funds." I don't see a conflict there. They are only saying that, while they will spend money at the direction of the project, they must, by law, have final authority on how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership already asked them about this specifically. > Can Squeak, with non-profit status, be its own successor? Yes. > I always try to move the area to California. It's much more expensive > to deal out-of-state (you have to find an attorney that can practice > in that state, etc.) Certainly worth a shot, but the Conservancy insists that the governing law be that of New York. > Finally, have you reviewed other entities that offer services like > SFC? Have you spoken with the Samba or the Wine teams about their > experience with SFC? No, I'm afraid we simply don't have the available time. Frankly, though, I'm already convinced that working with this group will be a good thing. I'm especially compelled by the strength of their team[3] and their roster of existing member projects. *** Ron Teitelbaum writes: > > 2b. The Committee Will Manage the Project. Authority to manage the > > technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program > > activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee, subject at > > all times to the direction and control of the Conservancy's Board of > > Directors. The Conservancy will only intervene in the program > > activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with > > Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement. > > The period (.) after Directors should be changed to a colon (:) The folks who do the legalese at the Conservancy don't agree. > > 2c. Ultimate Responsibility of Project. Subject to Section 2(b) of > > this Agreement, all community programs, public information work, > > fundraising events, processing and acknowledgment of cash and > > noncash revenue items, accounts payable and receivable, negotiation > > of leases and contracts, disbursement of Project funds (including > > grants), and other activities planned by the Project shall be the > > ultimate responsibility of the Conservancy and shall be conducted in > > the name of the Conservancy, beginning on the Effective Date. > > ...Does this mean for example that fundraising can not use the name > Squeak? No. > Or is the intention only to make sure that the Software Freedom > Conservancy is associated with all fundraising activities. Yes; in particular, we need to keep them appraised of the fundraising that we do, so that they know that we're behaving appropriately (e.g., not supporting political candidates). > So for example could we have a Squeak Conference, as long as we note > on the materials that proceeds are directed to the Software Freedom > Conservancy? Exactly, people would donate to the Squeak project in care of the Software Freedom Conservancy, and our donation materials would have the usual boilerplate stating that the SFC is a tax-exempt organization ("The Software Freedom Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) organization, and donations made to it are fully tax-deductible to the extent permitted by law."). > > 4. Project Fund/Variance Power. Beginning on the Effective Date, the > > Conservancy shall place all gifts, grants, contributions and other > > revenues received by the Conservancy and identified with the Project > > into a Project Fund to be used for the sole benefit of the Project's > > mission as that mission may be defined by the Committee from time to > > time with the approval of the Conservancy... > > Add: as defined in Paragraph 2b. The Conservancy doesn't think that's necessary. > > 6. Representation of the Project in the Conservancy. The Directors, > > each a signatory hereto, shall represent the Project in its official > > capacity with the Conservancy. There shall be seven Directors, > > elected by the community members of the Project listed on the > > Project's website at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/ who > > have a achieved the title Apprentice, Journeyer or Master (the > > "Community Members"). > > Add: The election is conducted by the Squeak Elections Team. The > Elections Team is assembled of members of the community, each member > selected by the Elections Team Leader who is appointed by a majority > of the Directors. > > > Each Director shall continue to serve until he or she resigns from > > the position. [The Directors may be removed from the position at any > > time by a majority vote of the Community Members.] Upon the > > resignation or removal of a Director, the Community Members shall... > > Remove "shall", add "may". > > > ...elect a replacement Director to serve on the Committee. > > Add: at the discretion of the Squeak Elections Team Leader based on > the considered impact to the community and the duration of time to > serve before the next Director election. > > > The Committee will elect [a single/two] individual[s] to communicate > > with the Conservancy (the "Representative") and shall notify the > > Conservancy promptly following the election of a new Representative. > > The Representative will have the authority to instruct the > > Conservancy on the Project's behalf on all matters. Unlike most of the rest of the agreement (which has to satisfy the Conservancy's various legal obligations), we do get to specify the details in this section. I think your first two suggestions here are fine. I don't like the third, although it raises a good point: the community-wide elections are very labor-intensive. Upon further reflection, I'd rather the remaining Directors decided on replacements themselves. If the community doesn't like the replacements, they can change as many of the Directors as they like at the next election. Election/replacement details may be something more appropriately addressed in a set of "Squeak project bylaws", to which the Conservancy agreement merely refers by URL. What we have now came from a board meeting with a representative from the Conservancy (who then wrote the paragraph). I've sent another message to the Conservancy asking about this. > > 8d. Termination Without a Successor. If no Successor is found, the > > Conservancy may... > > Add: , with written agreement between the Conservancy and the > Directors, > > > ...dispose of the Project assets and liabilities in any manner > > consistent with applicable tax and charitable trust laws. The Conservancy thinks this isn't feasible (due to legal obligations) and unnecessary anyway. I agree; if anyone cares enough to want that authority, I'd think they'd care enough to set up a successor organization. > Nice job all! Thanks! -C [1] http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense [2] http://tinyurl.com/3y8kuc (lists.squeakfoundation.org) [3] http://www.softwarefreedom.org/about/team -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] |
On Tue August 14 2007 4:27 pm, Craig Latta wrote:
> > For instance, this is troubling: "... The Conservancy retains the > > unilateral right to spend such funds so as to accomplish the purposes > > of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's sole > > judgment..." > > > > And, it doesn't jive with their website which states: > > > > "any monies received by a project are put in a separate Conservancy > > fund and maintained there until the project directs the Conservancy to > > do something with the funds." > > I don't see a conflict there. They are only saying that, while they > will spend money at the direction of the project, they must, by law, > have final authority on how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership > already asked them about this specifically. They may have verbally said that, but that's not what they are saying in this section. They are clearly stating they retain the supreme right to spend the funds solely in their own judgement. It doesn't say they will spend the funds in concert and in collaboration with the Project's directors. What I'm saying is that it's advertised on the web that the Converancy is at the direction of the Project, but the contract clearly states the opposite. |
Hi Brad-- > > They are only saying that, while they will spend money at the > > direction of the project, they must, by law, have final authority on > > how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership already asked them > > about this specifically. > > They may have verbally said that... They said it in writing, too, via recital C and paragraph 2b. > ...but that's not what they are saying in this section. They are > clearly stating they retain the supreme right to spend the > funds solely in their own judgement. It doesn't say they will spend > the funds in concert and in collaboration with the Project's > directors. > > What I'm saying is that it's advertised on the web that the Converancy > is at the direction of the Project, but the contract clearly states > the opposite. Brad, we disagree; I'm sorry. Furthermore, the agreement cannot be reworded and still comply with US tax law. I am convinced that our choices are to sign this agreement (whether with SFC or some other entity), incorporate independently, or do nothing. We simply don't have the time available to execute and maintain incorporation, and doing nothing will leave us without access to tax-exempt donations. So, I think we should do this. If we decide to incorporate later, we can. thanks again, -C -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] |
Craig,
I support signing the agreement. Thank you for addressing my concerns, even if all my suggestions were rejected, I am still comfortable with it. Like you I've worked closely with SFLC and I'm convinced we should move forward. Ron Teitelbaum > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Craig Latta > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:27 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: re: proposed agreement with the Software Freedom Conservancy > > > Hi Brad-- > > > > They are only saying that, while they will spend money at the > > > direction of the project, they must, by law, have final authority on > > > how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership already asked them > > > about this specifically. > > > > They may have verbally said that... > > They said it in writing, too, via recital C and paragraph 2b. > > > ...but that's not what they are saying in this section. They are > > clearly stating they retain the supreme right to spend the > > funds solely in their own judgement. It doesn't say they will spend > > the funds in concert and in collaboration with the Project's > > directors. > > > > What I'm saying is that it's advertised on the web that the Converancy > > is at the direction of the Project, but the contract clearly states > > the opposite. > > Brad, we disagree; I'm sorry. Furthermore, the agreement cannot be > reworded and still comply with US tax law. I am convinced that our > choices are to sign this agreement (whether with SFC or some other > entity), incorporate independently, or do nothing. We simply don't have > the time available to execute and maintain incorporation, and doing > nothing will leave us without access to tax-exempt donations. So, I > think we should do this. If we decide to incorporate later, we can. > > > thanks again, > > -C > > -- > Craig Latta > improvisational musical informaticist > www.netjam.org > Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] > |
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
On Tue August 14 2007 5:27 pm, Craig Latta wrote:
> Hi Brad-- > > > > They are only saying that, while they will spend money at the > > > direction of the project, they must, by law, have final authority on > > > how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership already asked them > > > about this specifically. > > > > They may have verbally said that... > > They said it in writing, too, via recital C and paragraph 2b. > > > ...but that's not what they are saying in this section. They are > > clearly stating they retain the supreme right to spend the > > funds solely in their own judgement. It doesn't say they will spend > > the funds in concert and in collaboration with the Project's > > directors. > > > > What I'm saying is that it's advertised on the web that the Converancy > > is at the direction of the Project, but the contract clearly states > > the opposite. > > Brad, we disagree; I'm sorry. Furthermore, the agreement cannot be > reworded and still comply with US tax law. I am convinced that our > choices are to sign this agreement (whether with SFC or some other > entity), incorporate independently, or do nothing. We simply don't have > the time available to execute and maintain incorporation, and doing > nothing will leave us without access to tax-exempt donations. So, I > think we should do this. I was only pointing out what I felt were some things to address. You've commented on the major concerns, thanks. The committee is at an advantage in that you have had discussions with the SFC - you get to understand their motives firsthand. However, we on the outside have a distinct advantage in that we have only the word of the contract to review - and that's what you are signing, afterall. I am, and I'm sure along with others are, appreciative of the committee's dedication and work getting this accomplished. THANKS! brad brad |
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
Hi Craig -
Thanks for the detailed comments. This all sounds great. Cheers, - Andreas Craig Latta wrote: > Hi all-- > > Thanks for the feedback! In this message I address the issues > raised by Andreas Raab, Brad Fuller, and Ron Teitelbaum. > > *** > > Andreas Raab writes: > >> The draft agreement refers to "Free Software" in paragraph 2a which is >> later used to specify that "The Conservancy will only intervene in the >> program activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with >> Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement". Do you know if the >> Software Freedom Conservancy is okay with Squeak-L as "Free Software" >> (which is not OSI Open Source(tm) compliant) or whether that makes it >> dependent on a license change? > > I've spoken with them about our effort[1] to move to an MIT-style > license. They understand that we'll be using the original Squeak license > until we finish sorting things out, and that's okay with them. > >> In particular, would it mean that if the SqF supports activities that >> use Squeak-L it would trigger the above clause? > > No. > > *** > > Brad Fuller writes: > >> I've been out for a couple of weeks so I didn't see any posting about >> the SFC before. Has there been? > > Yes, on 3 July 2007 (see [2]). > >> It's an interesting move. Maintaining a non-profit, filing tax forms >> each years, (etc) can be a pain. Nice to have someone else do it, as >> long as the focus is on Squeak and not SFC. > > I'm confident that's how it'll be. > >>> [From recital B:] The Committee desires to manage the Project under >>> the sponsorship of the Conservancy. >> Maybe it should read "The Committee desires the Conservancy to manage >> the Project's funds under the sponsorship of the Conservancy.". >> >> Less ambiguous, we don't want them to manage Squeak. Especially since >> [recital] A defines the purpose of the Project to produce and >> distribute free software and [paragraph] 2b states that Squeak is >> responsible for the technical and artistic direction. > > The Conservancy suggests adding the following sentence to recital > C: "The Conservancy expects to make such expenditures at the direction > of the Project in the ordinary course of the Project's operations." > > So, the entire recital C would read: "The Conservancy's Board of > Directors has approved the establishment of a fund to receive donations > of cash and other property earmarked for support of the Project and to > make disbursements in furtherance of the Project’s mission (the > “Project Fund”). The Conservancy expects to make such expenditures at > the direction of the Project in the ordinary course of the Project's > operations.Currently, the principal office of the Project is located at > [Craig's mailing address]." > > I think this addresses the issue. > >>> 2b. "Authority to manage the technical and artistic direction of the >>> Project and the program activities of the Project is delegated to >>> the Committee, subject at all times to the direction and control of >>> the Conservancy's Board of Directors. The Conservancy will only >>> intervene in the program activities to the extent the Project is not >>> in compliance with Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement." >> Why would the Conservancy's Board be in total control of the direction >> of Squeak? > > They have to have that authority in order to maintain their > tax-exempt status. True, this involves some risk on our part. I think > it's worth doing, though. From my conversations with them, and my > research about their goals and other member projects, I trust them. We > can always terminate the agreement if things go really wrong. > >> Why does the conservancy have the power to approve the distribution of >> the money for Squeak? > > Again, they have to have that power in order to satisfy the US IRS. > This is apparently to prevent situations like a member project using > funds to aid political campaigns. > >> For instance, this is troubling: "... The Conservancy retains the >> unilateral right to spend such funds so as to accomplish the purposes >> of the Project as nearly as possible within the Conservancy's sole >> judgment..." >> >> And, it doesn't jive with their website which states: >> >> "any monies received by a project are put in a separate Conservancy >> fund and maintained there until the project directs the Conservancy to >> do something with the funds." > > I don't see a conflict there. They are only saying that, while they > will spend money at the direction of the project, they must, by law, > have final authority on how the money is spent. The Squeak leadership > already asked them about this specifically. > >> Can Squeak, with non-profit status, be its own successor? > > Yes. > >> I always try to move the area to California. It's much more expensive >> to deal out-of-state (you have to find an attorney that can practice >> in that state, etc.) > > Certainly worth a shot, but the Conservancy insists that the > governing law be that of New York. > >> Finally, have you reviewed other entities that offer services like >> SFC? Have you spoken with the Samba or the Wine teams about their >> experience with SFC? > > No, I'm afraid we simply don't have the available time. Frankly, > though, I'm already convinced that working with this group will be a > good thing. I'm especially compelled by the strength of their team[3] > and their roster of existing member projects. > > *** > > Ron Teitelbaum writes: > >>> 2b. The Committee Will Manage the Project. Authority to manage the >>> technical and artistic direction of the Project and the program >>> activities of the Project is delegated to the Committee, subject at >>> all times to the direction and control of the Conservancy's Board of >>> Directors. The Conservancy will only intervene in the program >>> activities to the extent the Project is not in compliance with >>> Paragraph 2(a) or Paragraph 5 of this Agreement. >> The period (.) after Directors should be changed to a colon (:) > > The folks who do the legalese at the Conservancy don't agree. > >>> 2c. Ultimate Responsibility of Project. Subject to Section 2(b) of >>> this Agreement, all community programs, public information work, >>> fundraising events, processing and acknowledgment of cash and >>> noncash revenue items, accounts payable and receivable, negotiation >>> of leases and contracts, disbursement of Project funds (including >>> grants), and other activities planned by the Project shall be the >>> ultimate responsibility of the Conservancy and shall be conducted in >>> the name of the Conservancy, beginning on the Effective Date. >> ...Does this mean for example that fundraising can not use the name >> Squeak? > > No. > >> Or is the intention only to make sure that the Software Freedom >> Conservancy is associated with all fundraising activities. > > Yes; in particular, we need to keep them appraised of the > fundraising that we do, so that they know that we're behaving > appropriately (e.g., not supporting political candidates). > >> So for example could we have a Squeak Conference, as long as we note >> on the materials that proceeds are directed to the Software Freedom >> Conservancy? > > Exactly, people would donate to the Squeak project in care of the > Software Freedom Conservancy, and our donation materials would have the > usual boilerplate stating that the SFC is a tax-exempt organization > ("The Software Freedom Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) organization, and > donations made to it are fully tax-deductible to the extent permitted by > law."). > >>> 4. Project Fund/Variance Power. Beginning on the Effective Date, the >>> Conservancy shall place all gifts, grants, contributions and other >>> revenues received by the Conservancy and identified with the Project >>> into a Project Fund to be used for the sole benefit of the Project's >>> mission as that mission may be defined by the Committee from time to >>> time with the approval of the Conservancy... >> Add: as defined in Paragraph 2b. > > The Conservancy doesn't think that's necessary. > >>> 6. Representation of the Project in the Conservancy. The Directors, >>> each a signatory hereto, shall represent the Project in its official >>> capacity with the Conservancy. There shall be seven Directors, >>> elected by the community members of the Project listed on the >>> Project's website at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/ who >>> have a achieved the title Apprentice, Journeyer or Master (the >>> "Community Members"). >> Add: The election is conducted by the Squeak Elections Team. The >> Elections Team is assembled of members of the community, each member >> selected by the Elections Team Leader who is appointed by a majority >> of the Directors. >> >>> Each Director shall continue to serve until he or she resigns from >>> the position. [The Directors may be removed from the position at any >>> time by a majority vote of the Community Members.] Upon the >>> resignation or removal of a Director, the Community Members shall... >> Remove "shall", add "may". >> >>> ...elect a replacement Director to serve on the Committee. >> Add: at the discretion of the Squeak Elections Team Leader based on >> the considered impact to the community and the duration of time to >> serve before the next Director election. >> >>> The Committee will elect [a single/two] individual[s] to communicate >>> with the Conservancy (the "Representative") and shall notify the >>> Conservancy promptly following the election of a new Representative. >>> The Representative will have the authority to instruct the >>> Conservancy on the Project's behalf on all matters. > > Unlike most of the rest of the agreement (which has to satisfy the > Conservancy's various legal obligations), we do get to specify the > details in this section. I think your first two suggestions here are > fine. I don't like the third, although it raises a good point: the > community-wide elections are very labor-intensive. Upon further > reflection, I'd rather the remaining Directors decided on replacements > themselves. If the community doesn't like the replacements, they can > change as many of the Directors as they like at the next election. > > Election/replacement details may be something more appropriately > addressed in a set of "Squeak project bylaws", to which the Conservancy > agreement merely refers by URL. What we have now came from a board > meeting with a representative from the Conservancy (who then wrote the > paragraph). I've sent another message to the Conservancy asking about this. > >>> 8d. Termination Without a Successor. If no Successor is found, the >>> Conservancy may... >> Add: , with written agreement between the Conservancy and the >> Directors, >> >>> ...dispose of the Project assets and liabilities in any manner >>> consistent with applicable tax and charitable trust laws. > > The Conservancy thinks this isn't feasible (due to legal > obligations) and unnecessary anyway. I agree; if anyone cares enough to > want that authority, I'd think they'd care enough to set up a successor > organization. > >> Nice job all! > > Thanks! > > > -C > > [1] http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense > [2] http://tinyurl.com/3y8kuc (lists.squeakfoundation.org) > [3] http://www.softwarefreedom.org/about/team > > > -- > Craig Latta > improvisational musical informaticist > www.netjam.org > Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] > > > |
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller-2
> The committee is at an advantage in that you have had discussions with > the SFC - you get to understand their motives firsthand. However, we > on the outside have a distinct advantage in that we have only the word > of the contract to review - and that's what you are signing, afterall. Yeah, that's a very good point. > I am, and I'm sure along with others are, appreciative of the > committee's dedication and work getting this accomplished. Thanks, Brad! -C p.s. To all: Oops, in my previous message I said "the agreement can't be reworded and still comply with US tax law" when I was only talking about paragraph 4 ("Project Fund/Variance Power"). -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] |
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