"Inteligent" Shrink?
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Imagine this.
You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. If a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories then erase it. Example: I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic etc.. But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all Monticello's class not used. Is this possible on Squeak? Cheers. -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor :: ZYO Consulting :: email: [hidden email] tlfno: +34 675 145 912 web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co |
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Hi!
> Imagine this. > > You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all > the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. If > a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories then > erase it. > > Example: > I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic etc.. > But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all > Monticello's class not used. > > Is this possible on Squeak? I guess there are a whole bunch of ways to do such an analysis (that is more or less probably to be correct), MudPie springs to mind of course. Can't give you an SM-link right now because the nameservers for squeak.org seems to be unreachable right now - have no idea. I can't verify if SM is up or down because I don't have the IP of squeak.org in my head. regards, Göran |
Re: "Inteligent" Shrink?
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I don't know if others thinks like me, but I think something like this
could be intereseting for prepare a ready for end-users image (without 70MB of size) Something like this could have "don't delete develop tools" for example, but all the packages don't used, disappear from this image. En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:47:12 +0100, Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> escribió: > Hi! > >> Imagine this. >> >> You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all >> the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. >> If >> a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories >> then >> erase it. >> >> Example: >> I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic >> etc.. >> But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all >> Monticello's class not used. >> >> Is this possible on Squeak? > > I guess there are a whole bunch of ways to do such an analysis (that is > more or less probably to be correct), MudPie springs to mind of course. > > Can't give you an SM-link right now because the nameservers for > squeak.org > seems to be unreachable right now - have no idea. I can't verify if SM is > up or down because I don't have the IP of squeak.org in my head. > > regards, Göran > > -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor :: ZYO Consulting :: email: [hidden email] tlfno: +34 675 145 912 web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co |
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Hi,
I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from bottom. So we should simply continue in started modularization and packaging effort. Cheers, -- Pavel On 2/22/07, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi <[hidden email]> wrote: > I don't know if others thinks like me, but I think something like this > could be intereseting for prepare a ready for end-users image (without > 70MB of size) > > Something like this could have "don't delete develop tools" for example, > but all the packages don't used, disappear from this image. > > En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:47:12 +0100, Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> > escribió: > > > Hi! > > > >> Imagine this. > >> > >> You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all > >> the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. > >> If > >> a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories > >> then > >> erase it. > >> > >> Example: > >> I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic > >> etc.. > >> But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all > >> Monticello's class not used. > >> > >> Is this possible on Squeak? > > > > I guess there are a whole bunch of ways to do such an analysis (that is > > more or less probably to be correct), MudPie springs to mind of course. > > > > Can't give you an SM-link right now because the nameservers for > > squeak.org > > seems to be unreachable right now - have no idea. I can't verify if SM is > > up or down because I don't have the IP of squeak.org in my head. > > > > regards, Göran > > > > > > > > -- > Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor > > :: ZYO Consulting :: > email: [hidden email] > tlfno: +34 675 145 912 > web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co > > |
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In reply to this post by Giuseppe Luigi Punzi-2
Hi Giuseppe,
For reference see SystemDictionary>>removeAllUnSentMessages Cheers, -- Diego > Imagine this. > > You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all > the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. If > a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories then > erase it. > > Example: > I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic etc.. > But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all > Monticello's class not used. > > Is this possible on Squeak? > > Cheers. |
Re: "Inteligent" Shrink?
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek
Fast or not is not a problem. This could be for run once.
Otherwise, if 3.10 will work all with modules, this is not needed. En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:05:20 +0100, Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> escribió: > Hi, > > I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the > fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all > by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from > bottom. So we should simply continue in started modularization and > packaging effort. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > > On 2/22/07, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I don't know if others thinks like me, but I think something like this >> could be intereseting for prepare a ready for end-users image (without >> 70MB of size) >> >> Something like this could have "don't delete develop tools" for example, >> but all the packages don't used, disappear from this image. >> >> En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:47:12 +0100, Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> >> escribió: >> >> > Hi! >> > >> >> Imagine this. >> >> >> >> You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse >> all >> >> the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories >> uses. >> >> If >> >> a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories >> >> then >> >> erase it. >> >> >> >> Example: >> >> I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic >> >> etc.. >> >> But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete >> all >> >> Monticello's class not used. >> >> >> >> Is this possible on Squeak? >> > >> > I guess there are a whole bunch of ways to do such an analysis (that >> is >> > more or less probably to be correct), MudPie springs to mind of >> course. >> > >> > Can't give you an SM-link right now because the nameservers for >> > squeak.org >> > seems to be unreachable right now - have no idea. I can't verify if >> SM is >> > up or down because I don't have the IP of squeak.org in my head. >> > >> > regards, Göran >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor >> >> :: ZYO Consulting :: >> email: [hidden email] >> tlfno: +34 675 145 912 >> web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co >> >> > -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor :: ZYO Consulting :: email: [hidden email] tlfno: +34 675 145 912 web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co |
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek
On 22-Feb-07, at 4:05 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > Hi, > > I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the > fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all > by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from > bottom. Consider also 'Spoon'. Start from almost nothing, add what you need, provide a mechanism to add on the fly. If you're really sure what you want, disable that last item. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Close your eyes and press escape three times. |
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In reply to this post by Diego Gomez Deck
For an example of further use of these ideas, look at
http://www.jvuletich.org/Squeak/EToysFreeMorphic/EtoysFreeMorphic.html and try to understand it. Cheers, Juan Vuletich > Hi Giuseppe, > > For reference see SystemDictionary>>removeAllUnSentMessages > > Cheers, > > -- Diego > >> Imagine this. >> >> You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all >> the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. >> If >> a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories >> then >> erase it. >> >> Example: >> I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic >> etc.. >> But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all >> Monticello's class not used. >> >> Is this possible on Squeak? >> >> Cheers. > > > > |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:42:52 +0100, tim Rowledge wrote:
> On 22-Feb-07, at 4:05 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the >> fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all >> by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from >> bottom. > > Consider also 'Spoon'. Start from almost nothing, add what you need, > provide a mechanism to add on the fly. If you're really sure what you > want, disable that last item. Yeah, I would really like to see Spoon applied to Giuseppe's needs, just to learn what comes out. /Klaus > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Close your eyes and press escape three times. > > > > |
Re: "Inteligent" Shrink?
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"Spoon way" is the oposite to "Intelligent Shrink" ideas.
Spoon Way = Add all as you want. IS = Erase all you don't need. As I said, If 3.10 will work with modules, and you can start with a basic (basic=minimun for start and add packages) image and add all you need, then this is unnecesary. This could be usefull if you don't want to have Developer Utilitys on the image for end users (as LockDown packages do, but this package, disable it, not delete it. I have better ideas for lockdown package, but this is other story). En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:14:03 +0100, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]> escribió: > On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:42:52 +0100, tim Rowledge wrote: >> On 22-Feb-07, at 4:05 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the >>> fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all >>> by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from >>> bottom. >> >> Consider also 'Spoon'. Start from almost nothing, add what you need, >> provide a mechanism to add on the fly. If you're really sure what you >> want, disable that last item. > > Yeah, I would really like to see Spoon applied to Giuseppe's needs, just > to learn what comes out. > > /Klaus > >> tim >> -- >> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim >> Close your eyes and press escape three times. >> >> >> >> > > > -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor :: ZYO Consulting :: email: [hidden email] tlfno: +34 675 145 912 web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co |
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Hi Giuseppe-- > "Spoon way" is the oposite to "Intelligent Shrink" ideas. > > Spoon Way = Add all as you want. > IS = Erase all you don't need. But of course the starting point for Spoon was produced by erasing everything that isn't needed (in this case, everything that isn't needed to start and extend the system). That's *exactly* what you're talking about, and it's provably correct. I encourage everyone to re-read the progress reports in the Spoon archives[1], starting at [2] is probably best. I have written about this at length. thanks, -C [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/spoon [2] http://tinyurl.com/2gbext (lists.squeakfoundation.org) -- Craig Latta http://netjam.org/resume |
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In reply to this post by Diego Gomez Deck
El 2/22/07 9:14 AM, "Diego Gomez Deck" <[hidden email]> escribió: > Hi Giuseppe, > > For reference see SystemDictionary>>removeAllUnSentMessages > > Cheers, > > -- Diego And removing all , learn how blow a image. Diego, you what always say what cutting a image is playing Jack the Ripper :=) Today, Giussepe, the smaller ,cleaner Squeak based system is of Pavel. Take this as base of any what Squeak becomes in future , current 3.10 process when go out I hope ends 1/3 smaller and clean what 3.9 is. And all modularization process , packages or "ladrillos" as I call, become less esoteric Edgar __________________________________________________ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas |
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In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
El 2/22/07 3:03 PM, "Craig Latta" <[hidden email]> escribió: > But of course the starting point for Spoon was produced by erasing > everything that isn't needed (in this case, everything that isn't needed > to start and extend the system). That's *exactly* what you're talking > about, and it's provably correct. I encourage everyone to re-read the > progress reports in the Spoon archives[1], starting at [2] is probably > best. I have written about this at length. > > > thanks, This is fine to watch thing, for learn a lot of. When I began to play in shrinking business, Craig was one of my inspirers. And if someone take some time, could found "Fenix" , Alejandro Reimondo complete 3.2 system for made micro images from one what continue running, don't is destroyed, etc. Still smaller 2+2 and exit image. >From here and documentation what in some moment Jecel point, I learn the "mother and child" idea. You could have the big image what have all tools you wish "Mother" and the small image what you wish. But child grows , eventually. Edgar __________________________________________________ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas |
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In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene
Edgar writes: > Today, Giussepe, the smaller, cleaner Squeak based system is of Pavel. > > Take this as base of any what Squeak becomes in future... I disagree. The Spoon systems are both much smaller and cleaner (easier to justify the presence of each object). -C -- Craig Latta http://netjam.org/resume |
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El 2/22/07 6:13 PM, "Craig Latta" <[hidden email]> escribió: > I disagree. The Spoon systems are both much smaller and cleaner > (easier to justify the presence of each object). > Craig you must read my other mail!! And my opinion as I said in other list is what eventually Spoon become Squeak or viceversa. I admire your work !! Perhaps I should said: "Today is easier you could build some application using existent Squeak stuff " Possible you disagree too. Continue your good work, let Pavel , me and others do what we could for enhancing Squeak Edgar __________________________________________________ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas |
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In reply to this post by Giuseppe Luigi Punzi-2
This is what I was suggesting before. I don't know if it exists or not, but
something like this could be used to generate executables from an image. That is, I may have an MPEG player, a web site, something to control robots, etc., but I can select one of those and do the shrink to have a releasable exe. >From: "Giuseppe Luigi Punzi" <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: [hidden email] >Subject: "Inteligent" Shrink? >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:39:22 +0100 > >Imagine this. > >You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse all >the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories uses. If >a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories then >erase it. > >Example: > I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic etc.. >But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete all >Monticello's class not used. > >Is this possible on Squeak? > >Cheers. > >-- >Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor > > :: ZYO Consulting :: >email: [hidden email] >tlfno: +34 675 145 912 >web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co > _________________________________________________________________ Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school degrees online - in as fast as 1 year http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116 |
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek
Well you bring up a good point. I think the first thing we need to do is
get into a fully packaged (via universes, or something like that) world where such a tool only need look at package dependencies, not every single method/class. >From: "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]> >Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers >list"<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: "Inteligent" Shrink? >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:05:20 +0100 > >Hi, > >I played with this idea of automatical image segmentation but the >fastest, safest and maybe the only possible way now is to do that all >by hand. The better way to create specialized images is IMHO from >bottom. So we should simply continue in started modularization and >packaging effort. > >Cheers, >-- Pavel > >On 2/22/07, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi <[hidden email]> wrote: >>I don't know if others thinks like me, but I think something like this >>could be intereseting for prepare a ready for end-users image (without >>70MB of size) >> >>Something like this could have "don't delete develop tools" for example, >>but all the packages don't used, disappear from this image. >> >>En Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:47:12 +0100, Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> >>escribió: >> >> > Hi! >> > >> >> Imagine this. >> >> >> >> You select one or various categories and "Intelligent Shrink" browse >>all >> >> the image searching all the objects thath the selected categories >>uses. >> >> If >> >> a categorie is not use or not will use it for our selected categories >> >> then >> >> erase it. >> >> >> >> Example: >> >> I create a "set" of objects, and use objects from Kernel, Morphic >> >> etc.. >> >> But no object uses Monticello. Then, "Intelligent Shrink" may delete >>all >> >> Monticello's class not used. >> >> >> >> Is this possible on Squeak? >> > >> > I guess there are a whole bunch of ways to do such an analysis (that is >> > more or less probably to be correct), MudPie springs to mind of course. >> > >> > Can't give you an SM-link right now because the nameservers for >> > squeak.org >> > seems to be unreachable right now - have no idea. I can't verify if SM >>is >> > up or down because I don't have the IP of squeak.org in my head. >> > >> > regards, Göran >> > >> > >> >> >> >>-- >>Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor >> >> :: ZYO Consulting :: >>email: [hidden email] >>tlfno: +34 675 145 912 >>web: http://www.zyoconsulting.co >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ Find what you need at prices youll love. Compare products and save at MSN® Shopping. http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 |
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In reply to this post by Giuseppe Luigi Punzi-2
>From: "Giuseppe Luigi Punzi" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >list<[hidden email]> >To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers >list"<[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: "Inteligent" Shrink? >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:23:26 +0100 > >"Spoon way" is the oposite to "Intelligent Shrink" ideas. > >Spoon Way = Add all as you want. >IS = Erase all you don't need. >As I said, If 3.10 will work with modules, and you can start with a basic >(basic=minimun for start and add packages) image and add all you need, >then this is unnecesary. I disagree with this. I would always want an "Intelligent Shrink" because I prefer to work with an image that has everything in, but if I were to make something to deploy to an end user I would want to break out just the app I am giving them. And I don't want to do that manually. _________________________________________________________________ Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-17727&moid=7581 |
Re: "Inteligent" Shrink?
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Hi JJ,
J J escribió: >> From: "Giuseppe Luigi Punzi" <[hidden email]> >> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >> list<[hidden email]> >> To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers >> list"<[hidden email]> >> Subject: Re: "Inteligent" Shrink? >> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:23:26 +0100 >> >> "Spoon way" is the oposite to "Intelligent Shrink" ideas. >> >> Spoon Way = Add all as you want. >> IS = Erase all you don't need. > >> As I said, If 3.10 will work with modules, and you can start with a >> basic (basic=minimun for start and add packages) image and add all >> you need, then this is unnecesary. > > I disagree with this. I would always want an "Intelligent Shrink" > because I prefer to work with an image that has everything in, but if I > were to make something to deploy to an end user I would want to break > out just the app I am giving them. And I don't want to do that manually. Well, you are right. There are some page on the swiki or other web where you can share ideas or bountys?. For example, I (and others as I can see) would like something like this, but I don't have the experience for do it. Cheers. -- Giuseppe Luigi Punzi - Consultor :: ZYO Consulting :: email: [hidden email] tlfno: +34 675 145 912 web: http://www.zyoconsulting.com |
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On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:43:18 +0100, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:
> Hi JJ, > > J J escribió: >>> From: "Giuseppe Luigi Punzi" <[hidden email]> >>> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers >>> list<[hidden email]> >>> To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers >>> list"<[hidden email]> >>> Subject: Re: "Inteligent" Shrink? >>> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:23:26 +0100 >>> >>> "Spoon way" is the oposite to "Intelligent Shrink" ideas. >>> >>> Spoon Way = Add all as you want. >>> IS = Erase all you don't need. >> >>> As I said, If 3.10 will work with modules, and you can start with a >>> basic (basic=minimun for start and add packages) image and add all >>> you need, then this is unnecesary. >> >> I disagree with this. I would always want an "Intelligent Shrink" >> because I prefer to work with an image that has everything in, but if I >> were to make something to deploy to an end user I would want to break >> out just the app I am giving them. And I don't want to do that >> manually. > > Well, you are right. > > There are some page on the swiki or other web where you can share ideas > or bountys?. For example, I (and others as I can see) would like > something like this, but I don't have the experience for do it. You might want to look at an existing class (invented by Ted Kaehler), - http://ftp.squeak.org/1.23/1.22-1.23%20FileIns/SystemTracer.st HTH. /Klaus > Cheers. > |
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