recording-crash

Send Squeak-dev mailing list submissions to
       [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/squeak-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
       [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Squeak-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Deadline extension: Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3)
     2008 (Robert Hirschfeld)
  2. Re: [3.9.1] please check (Ken Causey)
  3. Re: [3.9.1] please check (Lukas Renggli)
  4. Re: [3.9.1] please check (Masashi UMEZAWA)
  5. Re: [3.9.1] please check (Giovanni Corriga)
  6. Re: HydraTools and minimal images (Klaus D. Witzel)
  7. Re: HydraTools and minimal images (Igor Stasenko)
  8. Re: MC bug? (David R?thlisberger)
  9. Important reminder - Squeak Foundation Election 2008!
     ([hidden email])
 10. Re: [3.9.1] please check (Andreas Raab)
 11. Re: Important reminder - Squeak Foundation Election 2008!
     (Bert Freudenberg)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:14:33 +0100
From: Robert Hirschfeld <[hidden email]>
Subject: Deadline extension: Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3)
       2008
To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Please note that the deadline for paper submissions to the Workshop on
Self-sustaining Systems (S3) 2008 has been extended. The new submission
deadline in now

    *** February 24, 2008 ***

For more information on S3, please visit
http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/s3/

Regards,
Kim Rose and Robert Hirschfeld


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


[Call for Papers]


*** Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) 2008 ***

May 15-16, 2008
Potsdam, Germany
http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/s3/

-- Call for papers:

The Workshop on Self-sustaining Systems (S3) is a forum for discussion
of topics relating to computer systems and languages that are able to
bootstrap, implement, modify, and maintain themselves. One property of
these systems is that their implementation is based on small but
powerful abstractions; examples include (amongst others)
Squeak/Smalltalk, COLA, Klein/Self, PyPy/Python, Rubinius/Ruby, and
Lisp. Such systems are the engines of their own replacement, giving
researchers and developers great power to experiment with, and explore
future directions from within, their own small language kernels.

S3 will be take place May 15-16, 2008 at the Hasso-Plattner-Institute in
Potsdam, Germany. It is an exciting opportunity for researchers and
practitioners interested in self-sustaining systems to meet and share
their knowledge, experience, and ideas for future research and development.

-- Invited talk:

Ian Piumarta: Late-bound Object Lambda Architectures (Viewpoints
Research Institute, USA)

-- Submissions and proceedings:

S3 invites submissions of high-quality papers reporting original
research, or describing innovative contributions to, or experience with,
self-sustaining systems, their implementation, and their application.
Papers that depart significantly from established ideas and practices
are particularly welcome.

Submissions must not have been published previously and must not be
under review for any another refereed event or publication. The program
committee will evaluate each contributed paper based on its relevance,
significance, clarity, and originality. Revised papers will be published
as post-proceedings in the Springer LNCS series.

Papers should be submitted electronically via EasyChair at
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=s3 in PDF format. Submissions
must be written in English (the official language of the workshop) and
must not exceed 20 pages. They should use the LNCS format, templates for
which are available at http://www.springer.de/comp/lncs/authors.html.

-- Venue:

Hasso-Plattner-Institut (Potsdam, Germany)

-- Important dates:

Submission of papers: February 24, 2008
Author notification: April 11, 2008
Revised papers due: April 25, 2008

S3 workshop: May 15-16, 2008

Final papers for LNCS post-proceedings due: June 6, 2008

-- Chairs:

* Robert Hirschfeld (Hasso-Plattner-Institut Potsdam, Germany)
* Kim Rose (Viewpoints Research Institute, USA)

-- Program committee:

* Johan Brichau, Universite Catholique de Louvain, Belgium
* Pascal Costanza, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium
* Wolfgang De Meuter, Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Belgium
* Stephane Ducasse, INRIA Lille, France
* Michael Haupt, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany
* Robert Hirschfeld, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany
* Dan Ingalls, Sun Microsystems Laboratories, USA
* Martin von Löwis, Hasso-Plattner-Institut, Germany
* Hidehiko Masuhara, University of Tokyo, Japan
* Ian Piumarta, Viewpoints Research Institute, USA
* David Ungar, IBM, USA

-- Registration fees:

Early (until April 18, 2008)
* Regular participants: EUR 160
* Students: EUR 80

Late (after April 18, 2008)
* Regular participants: EUR 170
* Students: EUR 90


--

Robert Hirschfeld
[hidden email]
www.hirschfeld.org


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:21:15 -0600
From: Ken Causey <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [3.9.1] please check
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I agree, not a good idea for a maintenance release.

Ken

On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 13:46 -0800, Andreas Raab wrote:
> stephane ducasse wrote:
> >
> > + remove OB
>
> Does that mean that if people write code with a dependency on OB,
> publish on SqueakMap as "3.9" it will fail to work in 3.9.1? That's not
> exactly my understanding of a maintenance release.
>
> Cheers,
>    - Andreas
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
Url : http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/attachments/20080214/82f1fa93/attachment-0001.pgp

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:33:18 +0100
From: "Lukas Renggli" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [3.9.1] please check
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

It is a very good idea.

The OB code in 3.9 is totally outdated. It is so old, that it is
impossible to just load a new version with MC. To get the latest
version of OB working you have to unload the old code first. I assume
that anybody building something with OB knows how to load the latest
version.

Lukas

On 2/15/08, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree, not a good idea for a maintenance release.
>

>
>  Ken
>
>
>  On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 13:46 -0800, Andreas Raab wrote:
>  > stephane ducasse wrote:
>  > >
>  > > + remove OB
>  >
>  > Does that mean that if people write code with a dependency on OB,

>  > publish on SqueakMap as "3.9" it will fail to work in 3.9.1? That's not
>  > exactly my understanding of a maintenance release.
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  >    - Andreas
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>


--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:40:19 +0900
From: "Masashi UMEZAWA" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [3.9.1] please check
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,

Please see this also:
http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6894

2008/2/15, stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> hi guys
>
>  can you check what I did
>
>  "We use the following three fixes that are crucial for any server setup:
>  0006581: Image freezes (background processes like Seaside make no
>  progress) and Squeak hoggs CPU
>  This is the image freezing problem, where connecting with VNC and
>  moving the mouse would bring the image alive again. When being stuck,
>  Squeak hoggs the CPU, memory consumtion is stable. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6581
>  Note: fix takes only effect if Preferences enable: #serverMode !
>  --------
>  0006588: Broken Semaphore>>critical: leads to frozen processes in Delay
>  VNC doesn't respond to UI events, 0% cpu usage, several processes
>  frozen in Delay although our Seaside server still responds. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6588
>  --------
>  0006576: Delay is not thread-safe
>  Delay is not thread-safe since currently the calling process updates
>  the internal Delay structure itself. If the process gets terminated
>  while doing this (e.g., adding/removing from SuspendedDelays) the
>  whole system is left in an inconsistent state and breaks. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6576
>
>  + remove OB
>
>  The update stream is working but
>  I also uploaded an image in 3.9 folder. http://ftp.squeak.org/3.9/
>  Stef
--
[:masashi | ^umezawa]


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:59:25 +0000
From: Giovanni Corriga <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [3.9.1] please check
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Lukas Renggli ha scritto:
> It is a very good idea.
>
> The OB code in 3.9 is totally outdated. It is so old, that it is
> impossible to just load a new version with MC. To get the latest
> version of OB working you have to unload the old code first. I assume
> that anybody building something with OB knows how to load the latest
> version.

Ok, then the update stream should have something that unloads the 3.9.0
OB and loads the new one. It's not an issue of people not knowing how to
load the next version, it's an issue of seeing 3.9.x as a platform.

       Giovanni

       Giovanni



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:10:03 +0100
From: "Klaus D. Witzel" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: HydraTools and minimal images
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <op.t6j3m1z6rf0v61@toshiba3>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:52:41 +0100, Igor Stasenko wrote:

>>  >
>>  >  > What i can currently do, is provide an implementation of reliable
>>  >  > bidirectional communication. The rest, i hope you can do yourself.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > If I had a wish free: when you begin with reliable bidirectional
>>  >  communication please use, for the public part, the vocabulary which
>> is
>>  >  present in Socket's message categories #open, #queries, #receiving,
>>  >  #sending and #waiting. Please.
>>  >
>>
>> channels don't having too much methods requiring that many category
>> types.
>>  As you may noticed they are very basic wrap around corresponding
>> primitives.
>>
>>
> Oh, i wasn't attentive when writing this. I meant for current
> implementation only.

... ah, and I was just about to think that it wasn't you who wrote ;-)

> Of course, a bidirectional protocol will look as much as close to
> sockets :)

NB, some fruits with HydraSMS and its same-method principle, a #doit from
a workspace, just out of the blue and neither any other preparation nor
other knowledge:

 | sms | sms := HydraSMS doitAt: 2.
 sms atHomeDo: [Transcript cr; show: 'Hydra .image #2 is up and running']

, for which #doitAt: automagically compiles the very-same method in the
other image :)

/Klaus



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:47:54 +0200
From: "Igor Stasenko" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: HydraTools and minimal images
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 15/02/2008, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:52:41 +0100, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>  >>  >
>  >>  >  > What i can currently do, is provide an implementation of reliable
>  >>  >  > bidirectional communication. The rest, i hope you can do yourself.
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  > If I had a wish free: when you begin with reliable bidirectional
>  >>  >  communication please use, for the public part, the vocabulary which
>  >> is
>  >>  >  present in Socket's message categories #open, #queries, #receiving,
>  >>  >  #sending and #waiting. Please.
>  >>  >
>  >>
>  >> channels don't having too much methods requiring that many category
>  >> types.
>  >>  As you may noticed they are very basic wrap around corresponding
>  >> primitives.
>  >>
>  >>
>  > Oh, i wasn't attentive when writing this. I meant for current
>  > implementation only.
>
>
> ... ah, and I was just about to think that it wasn't you who wrote ;-)
>
>
>  > Of course, a bidirectional protocol will look as much as close to
>  > sockets :)
>
>
> NB, some fruits with HydraSMS and its same-method principle, a #doit from
>  a workspace, just out of the blue and neither any other preparation nor
>  other knowledge:
>
>   | sms | sms := HydraSMS doitAt: 2.
>   sms atHomeDo: [Transcript cr; show: 'Hydra .image #2 is up and running']
>
>  , for which #doitAt: automagically compiles the very-same method in the
>  other image :)
>
>
Be warned, that using index instead of handle to identify interpreter
is not a good way.

All primitives are handle-oriented, an #at: methods simply doing:
HydraVM interpreters at: n.

There is a danger, that when in future i add code to shutdown images,
then indexed can be changed, and thus, code based on indexes might
fail, because
if you having 3 interpreters running:

#(x y z)

and you shutting down 2nd one,
then 'HydraVM interpreters' will return array with 2 handles:
#(x z) , so #at: 3 will lead to error, and #at: 2 will return different handle.

>  /Klaus
>
>
>


--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:56:02 +0100
From: David R?thlisberger <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: MC bug?
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Stef,

> (MCWorkingCopy forPackage: (MCPackage new name: 'OmniBrowser')) unload.
> (MCWorkingCopy forPackage: (MCPackage new name: 'OB-Standard')) unload.
> SystemBrowser removeObsolete
>
> and I get the OmniBrowser classes removed bu not the OB-Standard ones

I once had the same problem because OBCodeBrowser was registered in
SystemChangeNotifier events, so it couldn't get unloaded. But I got a debugger in
that case, probably it's something else in your case then.
Anyway, I then executed 'SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance releaseAll'. Afterwards
I could unload OB-Standard without problems (was also in 3.9).

David


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:54:12 +0200
From: [hidden email]
Subject: Important reminder - Squeak Foundation Election 2008!
To: [hidden email],
       [hidden email],
       [hidden email],
       [hidden email], [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>

Dear Squeakers,

This is primarily a reminder for *nominating board member candidates*!
The deadline for nominations is 22nd February and that is VERY SOON! For
the full schedule, see below.

Our current nominees are:

       Bert Freudenberg (serving on the board currently)
       Yoshiki Ohshima  (serving on the board currently)

Both Bert and Yoshiki were nominated by Kim Rose, VPRI.

Every year we elect the Squeakfoundation Board
(http://www.squeak.org/Foundation) consisting of seven members from our
community. The exact duties of this board is not fully defined and there
are definitely varying ideas on how it should work and what we expect
from it - this is also why it is so important for us all to nominate
candidates and to lket the candidates present their views and ideas!

For more information about the board, see Ron's recent email:

       http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/elections/2008-February/000
223.html

Let me remind us all of the schedule:

Now through 22nd February (circa 8 days!!!!!): Nominations of board
members
       Candidates should nominate themselves on the squeak-dev mailing list.
       Or if you nominate someone else, make sure that person really wants
       to run. :)

22nd February to 29th February: Campaigning period
       During this period the candidates should ideally present themselves
       and the community can ask questions. We will probably organise some
       form of structured Q&A activity - details to follow soon.

1st march 6PM (18.00) UTC: Online election starts using the CIVS system
       The voting period is one week long and ballots are sent out via email.
       Only Squeakers rated as Apprentice (or higher) on
       people.squeakfoundation.org are eligible to vote - make sure your
       email address is up to date there!!!

8th march 6PM (18.00) UTC: Online election ends
       Results will be announced as soon as possible on the 8th or 9th.


IMPORTANT:

In order to vote - be sure to confirm that you have an account on
people.squeakfoundation.org and that your email address is up to date.
If you are not already registered on the site do so as soon as
possible. Include information about your participation in the Squeak
community to aid everyone in determining your appropriate certification.
If you have an account but cannot access it any longer please email
[hidden email] and specify your account name.
When the voting period starts all voters will receive an email with
instructions and a link to the voting website.

If there are any further questions, just reply and I will follow up on
squeak-dev. More information and details will follow and everything
about the election can be tracked here:

       http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6025

regards, Göran Krampe on behalf of the Election Team


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:02:25 -0800
From: Andreas Raab <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [3.9.1] please check
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Well, ultimately the people using 3.9 (which I'm not) should decide
whether to throw out OB or not. I'm just pointing out that for a
*maintenance* release, the removal of large chunks of code where nobody
knows what may depend on it is generally considered a complete no-no.
These kinds of issues should be decided when the release is originally
made (and I'll bite my tongue here not making any sarcastic comments
about the fact that I had argued against the inclusion of OB in the 3.9
release in the first place).

FWIW, I think Giovanni's proposal would be preferable to having an old
version of OB in 3.9.0 and none in 3.9.1.

Cheers,
  - Andreas

Lukas Renggli wrote:
> It is a very good idea.
>
> The OB code in 3.9 is totally outdated. It is so old, that it is
> impossible to just load a new version with MC. To get the latest
> version of OB working you have to unload the old code first. I assume
> that anybody building something with OB knows how to load the latest
> version.
>
> Lukas
>
> On 2/15/08, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree, not a good idea for a maintenance release.
>>
>>
>>  Ken
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 13:46 -0800, Andreas Raab wrote:
>>  > stephane ducasse wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > + remove OB
>>  >
>>  > Does that mean that if people write code with a dependency on OB,
>>  > publish on SqueakMap as "3.9" it will fail to work in 3.9.1? That's not
>>  > exactly my understanding of a maintenance release.
>>  >
>>  > Cheers,
>>  >    - Andreas
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:35:56 +0100
From: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Important reminder - Squeak Foundation Election 2008!
To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
       <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Feb 15, 2008, at 9:54 , [hidden email] wrote:

> Our current nominees are:
>
>       Bert Freudenberg (serving on the board currently)
>       Yoshiki Ohshima  (serving on the board currently)
>
> Both Bert and Yoshiki were nominated by Kim Rose, VPRI.


On the last board meeting, those that attended agreed to re-run, so
here is their formal nomination:

       Craig Latta
       Tim Rowledge
       Andrew P. Black

(Yoshiki and me were there too, Cees and Stephane were absent).

Craig has invested a lot of time into legal issues this last year (he
is about to send a report of our activities), Andy brought fresh
perspectives into the group, and having Tim on board (pun intended)
is always nice :) It has been a pleasure working with these guys, so
I heartily recommend them for re-election. At the same time I'd love
to see fresh blood on board, so please, keep the nominations coming!

- Bert -




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Squeak-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/squeak-dev

End of Squeak-dev Digest, Vol 62, Issue 43
******************************************