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[squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

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Ken Causey-3

[squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
to go back to moderating every single message.

Again, my apologies,

Ken Causey

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100

Obama -- The Judas Goat
1/25/2009
By David Duke

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment

Joerg Beekmann, DeepCove Labs (YVR)

RE: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Hello Ken

Thank you for you efforts keeping the list running and no need to
apologize to us for the occasional spam that does get through.

Joerg
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken
Causey
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:05 PM
To: Squeak Devel List
Cc: [hidden email]; box-admins
Subject: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
to go back to moderating every single message.

Again, my apologies,

Ken Causey

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100

Obama -- The Judas Goat
1/25/2009
By David Duke

Rob Rothwell

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

+1

Any way to just block the current offender and not change to constant monitoring? This is the first time I have seen something like this in years, so maybe it just isn't that big of a deal right now...

Rob

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joerg Beekmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Ken

Thank you for you efforts keeping the list running and no need to
apologize to us for the occasional spam that does get through.

Joerg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ken
Causey
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:05 PM
To: Squeak Devel List
Cc: [hidden email]; box-admins
Subject: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
to go back to moderating every single message.

Again, my apologies,

Ken Causey

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100

Obama -- The Judas Goat
1/25/2009
By David Duke

Ken Causey-3

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

First let me clarify that although I Cc'ed Squeak-dev and believe this
is the best place for the conversation, I was referring to the
announcements list below which is the primary list for which I am
responsible, and I don't moderate the squeak-dev list although I'm sort
of there in the background as the box-admins team leader.

I have not taken the time to look through the samples of the spam I
received but I suspect I would find that they came from a variety of
hosts and likely leveraged one of the botnets. In any case even if they
all claim from a specific host blocking that host would likely be of no
benefit since even on DSL and cable (not to mention dialup services) the
IP assignment occasionally expires and a new one is issued.

This issue is no different from fighting spam in general and is a
constant battle that many many people fight every day with good but not
complete success. I for one don't feel that we should be spending time
on that battle but simply do our best to 'roll with the punches' so to
speak and do the simplest thing possible to communicate and continue to
do what we love and do best.

I agree that for now we should simply move on but perhaps give a little
thought to what might be a workable alternative if this does turn into a
real problem in the future.

Ken

On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 18:03 -0500, Rob Rothwell wrote:

> +1
>
> Any way to just block the current offender and not change to constant
> monitoring? This is the first time I have seen something like this in
> years, so maybe it just isn't that big of a deal right now...
>
> Rob
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joerg Beekmann
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello Ken
>
> Thank you for you efforts keeping the list running and no need
> to
> apologize to us for the occasional spam that does get through.
>
> Joerg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Ken
> Causey
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:05 PM
> To: Squeak Devel List
> Cc: [hidden email]; box-admins
> Subject: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on
> annoncements list
>
> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements
> mailing list.
> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several
> copies were
> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With
> the
> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all
> messages, even
> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had
> begun to
> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake
> and I will
> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I
> will have
> to go back to moderating every single message.
>
> Again, my apologies,
>
> Ken Causey
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>
> Obama -- The Judas Goat
> 1/25/2009
> By David Duke
>
>
>
>

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment

Janko Mivšek

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by Rob Rothwell

Rob Rothwell pravi:
> +1
>
> Any way to just block the current offender and not change to constant
> monitoring? This is the first time I have seen something like this in
> years, so maybe it just isn't that big of a deal right now...

Problem is that the offender impersonated regularly subscribed guys in
his spam, so he didn't need even to subscribe to the list.

For this he needed to find the e-mails of our guys. I suspect that he
found their e-mails from list archives. Default Mailman list archives
namely contain e-mail addresses while archives like Nabble not.

One of solution is therefore to switch off Mailman archives and use
Nabble and similar only.

Janko

> Rob
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joerg Beekmann <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> Hello Ken
>
> Thank you for you efforts keeping the list running and no need to
> apologize to us for the occasional spam that does get through.
>
> Joerg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> [mailto:[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>] On Behalf Of Ken
> Causey
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:05 PM
> To: Squeak Devel List
> Cc: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>; box-admins
> Subject: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list
>
> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
> to go back to moderating every single message.
>
> Again, my apologies,
>
> Ken Causey
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Reply-To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>
> Obama -- The Judas Goat
> 1/25/2009
> By David Duke
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

--
Janko Mivšek
Svetovalec za informatiko
Eranova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenija
www.eranova.si
tel: 01 514 22 55
faks: 01 514 22 56
gsm: 031 674 565

Janko Mivšek

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Another measure would be to authenticate e-mail sent to the lists more
strongly, with signing it with PGP or S/MIME (digital certs). Signed
emails would be tagged as completely trusted, while others would go to a
moderation list, or just tagged as untrusted.

This requires additional discipline from us the senders of email of
course and this is a major drawback of this approach. But it seems we
will soon be forced to do that otherwise not too hard additional setup
of our mail clients to support PGP or S/MIME mail signing.

On the server side there is a project underway to upgrade Mailman list
server (which we are using) to support such authentication:

Secure List Server: Mailman, PGP and S/MIME
http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-ssls/pgp-smime/talk/mailman-pgp-smime-talk.txt
The Secure List Server: an OpenPGP and S/MIME aware Mailman
http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-pgp-smime/

Best regards
Janko

Janko Mivšek pravi:

> Rob Rothwell pravi:
>> +1
>>
>> Any way to just block the current offender and not change to constant
>> monitoring? This is the first time I have seen something like this in
>> years, so maybe it just isn't that big of a deal right now...
>
> Problem is that the offender impersonated regularly subscribed guys in
> his spam, so he didn't need even to subscribe to the list.
>
> For this he needed to find the e-mails of our guys. I suspect that he
> found their e-mails from list archives. Default Mailman list archives
> namely contain e-mail addresses while archives like Nabble not.
>
> One of solution is therefore to switch off Mailman archives and use
> Nabble and similar only.
>
> Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

CdAB63

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Janko Mivšek escreveu:

Good evening.

I think that authenticating via PGP/PGP-MIME/S-MIME is useful to avoid
faked mail.

I don't think that this spam that penetrated the list is a real big
problem (unless it becomes frequent). Identification of the source can
be useful to possibly help a member of this list to get rid of a Trojan
or root kit that infected his computer. Besides, I strongly believe that
people must be warned to be careful when forwarding e-mails from one
list to another because if you don't strip headers and embedded email
addresses you create potential risks for the list (since it is not that
difficult to forge emails.

Best regards,

Casimiro

signature.asc (267 bytes) Download Attachment

Charles Hixson-2

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by Ken Causey-3

If this is the first time in a year, then perhaps your reaction is too
extreme. That was annoying, but I didn't find it any more than that,
and your time is also valuable.

I appreciate the apology, but that's probably all that's appropriate
(unless you can find a technical weakness that was breached).

Ken Causey wrote:

> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
> to go back to moderating every single message.
>
> Again, my apologies,
>
> Ken Causey
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>
> Obama -- The Judas Goat
> 1/25/2009
> By David Duke
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by Ken Causey-3

Hi ken

It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.
Don't worry.

Stef

On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Ken Causey wrote:

> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies
> were
> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages,
> even
> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I
> will
> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
> to go back to moderating every single message.
>
> Again, my apologies,
>
> Ken Causey
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>
> Obama -- The Judas Goat
> 1/25/2009
> By David Duke
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek

some communities do that already and this could be something to
explore if we got more attacks.

stef

On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote:

> Another measure would be to authenticate e-mail sent to the lists more
> strongly, with signing it with PGP or S/MIME (digital certs). Signed
> emails would be tagged as completely trusted, while others would go
> to a
> moderation list, or just tagged as untrusted.
>
> This requires additional discipline from us the senders of email of
> course and this is a major drawback of this approach. But it seems we
> will soon be forced to do that otherwise not too hard additional setup
> of our mail clients to support PGP or S/MIME mail signing.
>
> On the server side there is a project underway to upgrade Mailman list
> server (which we are using) to support such authentication:
>
>
> Secure List Server: Mailman, PGP and S/MIME
> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-ssls/pgp-smime/talk/mailman-pgp-smime-talk.txt
> The Secure List Server: an OpenPGP and S/MIME aware Mailman
> http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-pgp-smime/
>
>
> Best regards
> Janko
>
> Janko Mivšek pravi:
>> Rob Rothwell pravi:
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Any way to just block the current offender and not change to
>>> constant
>>> monitoring? This is the first time I have seen something like
>>> this in
>>> years, so maybe it just isn't that big of a deal right now...
>>
>> Problem is that the offender impersonated regularly subscribed guys
>> in
>> his spam, so he didn't need even to subscribe to the list.
>>
>> For this he needed to find the e-mails of our guys. I suspect that he
>> found their e-mails from list archives. Default Mailman list archives
>> namely contain e-mail addresses while archives like Nabble not.
>>
>> One of solution is therefore to switch off Mailman archives and use
>> Nabble and similar only.
>>
>> Janko
>
>
>
> --
> Janko Mivšek
> AIDA/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si
>
>

Alejandro F. Reimondo

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

Hi Stef and Squeakers,

Stef said:
> It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.

Do you know or made any investigation about
ideas related with been a Squeaker that serve
to moredate/orientate/control the personality of
a Squeaker?
(e.g. my swiki have been violated many times by
people that I know has knowledge about Squeak,
no deep knowledge I must say, but approx. one
year of "been a Squeaker" or so)

In the past I made studies trying to find
a relation or pattern in common between smalltalkers
and I found more evidence of bad attitudes than
good attitudes in practice (under human pov).
It was frustrating for me at that time, but it did not
stop me.
I invested more efforts trying to understand a relation
between the smalltalk architecture/design/formula
and how it affects persons and how they evaluate
the results of their actions (in reality, not in the systems
they build with smalltalk).

I think that Stef have not had the intention to promote
a dialog about this topic, but it is something I am
interested in, as a way to understand the changes
in Smalltalk related communities in the last decade
and the points of interest promoted by referents today.

cheers,
Ale.

----- Original Message -----
From: "stephane ducasse" <[hidden email]>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

> Hi ken
>
> It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.
> Don't worry.
>
> Stef
>
> On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Ken Causey wrote:
>
>> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
>> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
>> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
>> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
>> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
>> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
>> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
>> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
>> to go back to moderating every single message.
>>
>> Again, my apologies,
>>
>> Ken Causey
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
>> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>>
>> Obama -- The Judas Goat
>> 1/25/2009
>> By David Duke
>>
>>
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

I should say that I do not understand vandalism in general.
I'm estonished by bad energy people can have.
On our kids wiki in 1998 we got really stupid and ugly picture posted
and I never understood
so we just blocked the pages (but there were not smalltalkers I
imagine).

Stef

On Feb 1, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Alejandro F. Reimondo wrote:

> Hi Stef and Squeakers,
>
> Stef said:
>> It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.
>
> Do you know or made any investigation about
> ideas related with been a Squeaker that serve
> to moredate/orientate/control the personality of
> a Squeaker?
> (e.g. my swiki have been violated many times by
> people that I know has knowledge about Squeak,
> no deep knowledge I must say, but approx. one
> year of "been a Squeaker" or so)
>
> In the past I made studies trying to find
> a relation or pattern in common between smalltalkers
> and I found more evidence of bad attitudes than
> good attitudes in practice (under human pov).
> It was frustrating for me at that time, but it did not
> stop me.
> I invested more efforts trying to understand a relation
> between the smalltalk architecture/design/formula
> and how it affects persons and how they evaluate
> the results of their actions (in reality, not in the systems
> they build with smalltalk).
>
> I think that Stef have not had the intention to promote
> a dialog about this topic, but it is something I am
> interested in, as a way to understand the changes
> in Smalltalk related communities in the last decade
> and the points of interest promoted by referents today.
>
> cheers,
> Ale.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephane ducasse" <[hidden email]
> >
> To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]
> >
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements
> list
>
>
>> Hi ken
>>
>> It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.
>> Don't worry.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Ken Causey wrote:
>>
>>> I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing
>>> list.
>>> I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several
>>> copies were
>>> received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
>>> announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all
>>> messages, even
>>> those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
>>> relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
>>> regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and
>>> I will
>>> now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will
>>> have
>>> to go back to moderating every single message.
>>>
>>> Again, my apologies,
>>>
>>> Ken Causey
>>>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
>>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
>>> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100
>>>
>>> Obama -- The Judas Goat
>>> 1/25/2009
>>> By David Duke
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Hi Stéphane,

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:08 AM, stephane ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On our kids wiki in 1998 we got really stupid and ugly picture posted and I
> never understood
> so we just blocked the pages (but there were not smalltalkers I imagine).

please clarify: do you really believe that a person using Smalltalk is
"good" (in the pure ethical sense) by default? Your comments suggest
this, I'd just like to know.

Best,

Michael

Joshua Gargus-2

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:17 AM, Michael Haupt wrote:

> Hi Stéphane,
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:08 AM, stephane ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On our kids wiki in 1998 we got really stupid and ugly picture
>> posted and I
>> never understood
>> so we just blocked the pages (but there were not smalltalkers I
>> imagine).
>
> please clarify: do you really believe that a person using Smalltalk is
> "good" (in the pure ethical sense) by default? Your comments suggest
> this, I'd just like to know.

I don't see why this is such a stretch. Certainly, the generalization
won't always be true... I'm sure that there exist Smalltalkers who get
their kicks from crass vandalism, and we probably have more than our
share of evil geniuses hatching schemes to extort beeellions of Euros
(hi Tim!). However, it seems to me that Smalltalkers are more
motivated by Truth and Beauty than the average programmer (they're
certainly not in it for the most plentiful jobs or the biggest
money!). If this is true, it follows that they're less likely to
engage in Ugly Ugly website vandalism. I'm sure that Stephane doesn't
mean to imply that Smalltalkers are perfect, infallible beings.

Cheers,
Josh

>
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>

Michael Haupt-3

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Hi Joshua,

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Joshua Gargus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> However, it seems to me that Smalltalkers are more motivated by Truth and Beauty than
> the average programmer (they're certainly not in it for the most plentiful
> jobs or the biggest money!). If this is true, it follows that they're less
> likely to engage in Ugly Ugly website vandalism.

Smalltalkers are first of all more motivated by truth and beauty in
code, for given values of truth and beauty (**). That doesn't imply
anything else, let alone anything about behaviour in different
scenarios. Smalltalkers are people, too.

(**) Ask an experienced Haskell programmer about their notion of truth
and beauty in code. The story will be quite different.

In German, we have a saying that goes "Wo man singt, da lass dich
ruhig nieder, denn böse Menschen haben keine Lieder." (roughly
translated: "Where there's singing, it's safe to stay, because bad
people don't have songs."). This is a nice and naïve romantic
attitude.

I simply object to phrases like "Someone hacked my web site. That
couldn't have been a Smalltalker." because they are oversimplifying
and untruly glorifying at the same time.

Call me a pessimist. That's fine with me. :-)

Best,

Michael

hernanmd

Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

Stephane,
There's a book of Eric Hobsbawm called "Bandits" (especially the updated Revised Edition) that you, or anyone interested in the topic, will enjoy to read. There's even a free french translation on-line here : http://www.editions-zones.fr/spip.php?page=lyberplayer&id_article=79

Hernán

2009/2/4 stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>

I should say that I do not understand vandalism in general.
I'm estonished by bad energy people can have.
On our kids wiki in 1998 we got really stupid and ugly picture posted and I never understood
so we just blocked the pages (but there were not smalltalkers I imagine).

Stef

On Feb 1, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Alejandro F. Reimondo wrote:

Hi Stef and Squeakers,

Stef said:

It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.

Do you know or made any investigation about
ideas related with been a Squeaker that serve
to moredate/orientate/control the personality of
a Squeaker?
(e.g. my swiki have been violated many times by
people that I know has knowledge about Squeak,
no deep knowledge I must say, but approx. one
year of "been a Squeaker" or so)

In the past I made studies trying to find
a relation or pattern in common between smalltalkers
and I found more evidence of bad attitudes than
good attitudes in practice (under human pov).
It was frustrating for me at that time, but it did not
stop me.
I invested more efforts trying to understand a relation
between the smalltalk architecture/design/formula
and how it affects persons and how they evaluate
the results of their actions (in reality, not in the systems
they build with smalltalk).

I think that Stef have not had the intention to promote
a dialog about this topic, but it is something I am
interested in, as a way to understand the changes
in Smalltalk related communities in the last decade
and the points of interest promoted by referents today.

cheers,
Ale.

----- Original Message ----- From: "stephane ducasse" <[hidden email]>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Apology for offensive spam on annoncements list

Hi ken

It was clear that was not a Squeaker that wrote this shit.
Don't worry.

Stef

On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Ken Causey wrote:

I apologize for this coming through on the announcements mailing list.
I hope everyone realizes that I did not send this. Several copies were
received purportedly 'from' various community members. With the
announcements list I have had a policy of moderating all messages, even
those from subscribers. But in the last year or so I had begun to
relaxen this somewhat by whitelisting anyone who sent messages
regularly, this included myself. Clearly this was a mistake and I will
now remove myself and everyone else from the whitelist and I will have
to go back to moderating every single message.

Again, my apologies,

Ken Causey

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Lawrence Auster <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Squeak Announcements] Obama -- The Judas Goat
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:52:47 +0100

Obama -- The Judas Goat
1/25/2009
By David Duke