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[squeak-dev] Balloon3D

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Ramiro Diaz Trepat-2

[squeak-dev] Balloon3D

Hi all,
I was thinking of including some 3D charts on a little quantitative finance framework I am working on in my spare time. I don't want to achieve any avant garde 3D things, something that resembles what spreadsheets do would be fine.
I found the Balloon3D framework, that seems to be really fabulous. Although I had a bit of trouble installing and running some of the examples.
I have no previous experience whatsoever in 3D graphics, so my questions are:
- What are the best sources to learn about Balloon3D?
- Maybe some other pointers to learn the general basics of 3D graphics. But again, I don't want to become an expert on this matter, I would like to know enough to work well with the existing tools.

Thanks !

r

Ross Boylan

Re: [squeak-dev] Balloon3D

On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 13:36 +0000, Ramiro Diaz Trepat wrote:
> Hi all,
> I was thinking of including some 3D charts on a little quantitative
> finance framework I am working on in my spare time. I don't want to
> achieve any avant garde 3D things, something that resembles what
> spreadsheets do would be fine.
> I found the Balloon3D framework, that seems to be really fabulous.
When I asked about 3D, Karl Ramberg said he wasn't sure Balloon3D worked
in images > 3.8. So before you go too far, you might want to check if
it works. If it doesn't, you could either try an older image or try to
get it working with the current one.

I've been trying to use Croquet for 3D, but haven't had much luck so
far. The problems may be specific to my system, and almost certainly
are specific to Unix.

Ross Boylan

Edgar J. De Cleene

Re: [squeak-dev] Balloon3D

El 1/4/09 4:59 PM, "Ross Boylan" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> On Sun, 2009-01-04 at 13:36 +0000, Ramiro Diaz Trepat wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I was thinking of including some 3D charts on a little quantitative
>> finance framework I am working on in my spare time. I don't want to
>> achieve any avant garde 3D things, something that resembles what
>> spreadsheets do would be fine.
>> I found the Balloon3D framework, that seems to be really fabulous.
> When I asked about 3D, Karl Ramberg said he wasn't sure Balloon3D worked
> in images > 3.8. So before you go too far, you might want to check if
> it works. If it doesn't, you could either try an older image or try to
> get it working with the current one.
>
> I've been trying to use Croquet for 3D, but haven't had much luck so
> far. The problems may be specific to my system, and almost certainly
> are specific to Unix.
>
> Ross Boylan

Wonderland is on FunSqueak , what is 3.10 with all old friends and several
new into :=)

I agree Croquet or Cobalt is superior, but for start playing with 3D as
Ramiro said, maybe exploring Wonderland worths the troubles.

And if Ramiro found valuable and tell us about, I sure of load Wonderland or
Balloon 3D in SqueakLightII, but I have lots of things in course, so I wait
feedback.

Edgar

Andreas.Raab

[squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
> Wonderland is on FunSqueak , what is 3.10 with all old friends and several
> new into :=)

We should start thinking about how to get a FunSqueak going for 3.11, by
which I mean start testing the FunSqueak packages in 3.11 so that we can
have a more compelling Squeak release. Are you up for making an
Installer load script for FunSqueak?

> I agree Croquet or Cobalt is superior, but for start playing with 3D as
> Ramiro said, maybe exploring Wonderland worths the troubles.

It definitely is. It turns out that the usage in Croquet is something
slightly different - it's purely OpenGL, purely hardware accelerated and
while this gives much better performance than B3D, the latter has the
advantage that it is much more integrated with the rest of Morphic and
that you can do some fun things with it that are pretty much impossible
to do via Croquet. I'm kinda considering reviving B3D as a simplified,
but working model of "how 3d works" and leave Croquet for the more
professional uses. The tinkering part is real fun if you're not looking
for top of the line performance.

Cheers,
- Andreas

Hans-Martin Mosner

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

Andreas Raab schrieb:
> I'm kinda considering reviving B3D as a simplified, but working model
> of "how 3d works" and leave Croquet for the more professional uses.
> The tinkering part is real fun if you're not looking for top of the
> line performance.
That would be really great. There are quite a number of simple uses for
3D where B3D is entirely adequate, and it's completely platform-neutral,
which removes a lot of potential hassles.

Cheers,
Hans-Martin

Stéphane Rollandin

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab

Andreas Raab a écrit :
> I'm kinda considering reviving B3D as a simplified,
> but working model of "how 3d works" and leave Croquet for the more
> professional uses. The tinkering part is real fun if you're not looking
> for top of the line performance.

great idea !

regards,

Stef

Bert Freudenberg

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

On 07.01.2009, at 10:35, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:

> Andreas Raab a écrit :
>> I'm kinda considering reviving B3D as a simplified, but working
>> model of "how 3d works" and leave Croquet for the more professional
>> uses. The tinkering part is real fun if you're not looking for top
>> of the line performance.
>
> great idea !

Yay!

- Bert -

Edgar J. De Cleene

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab

El 1/7/09 2:08 AM, "Andreas Raab" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Are you up for making an
> Installer load script for FunSqueak?

Nope.

I have my SqueakLightII , which should be 3.11 and don't have Installer.

As I saying for a long time now, I should use CodeLoader in 3.10, but I
don't know at the time , so I use Installer.

So, being lazy have consecuences.

I don't agree with Ketih ideas.

For me using Installer is like using GOTO in BASIC first years.

A release should return to "good ways", like 3.8

Michael Rueger is doing this now on 3.8.x.

I beg on give SqueakLightII a try, sure some is wrong, but is my how to go
to be smaller and modular.

Yesterday I put
http://ftp.squeak.org/various_images/SqueakLight/SqueakLightII.dev.7215.zip

What I do is going from SqueakLightII to FunSqueak.

In this days I helping to port SeaBreeze to Squeak "Monticello way" from his
creators at http://seabreeze.heeg.de

Also some talented friend bring my attention to Scratch and I count with he
and my another far away friend to see if possible to have a
"Scratch-Ladrillo", module, package or whatever you like call.

And have John Maloney wisdom into Squeak (if possible)

And more what I plan to use in my race to Board 2009 candidate and Brest
2009 Amazing Beer Squeak with all you...

Edgar , Advocatus Diaboli and Ombusdman (Defensor del Pueblo)

Ramiro Diaz Trepat-2

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Balloon3D

Thank you very much for your replies guys.
Cheers

r.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

El 1/7/09 2:08 AM, "Andreas Raab" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Are you up for making an
> Installer load script for FunSqueak?

Nope.

I have my SqueakLightII , which should be 3.11 and don't have Installer.

As I saying for a long time now, I should use CodeLoader in 3.10, but I
don't know at the time , so I use Installer.

So, being lazy have consecuences.

I don't agree with Ketih ideas.

For me using Installer is like using GOTO in BASIC first years.

A release should return to "good ways", like 3.8

Michael Rueger is doing this now on 3.8.x.

I beg on give SqueakLightII a try, sure some is wrong, but is my how to go
to be smaller and modular.

Yesterday I put
http://ftp.squeak.org/various_images/SqueakLight/SqueakLightII.dev.7215.zip

What I do is going from SqueakLightII to FunSqueak.

In this days I helping to port SeaBreeze to Squeak "Monticello way" from his
creators at http://seabreeze.heeg.de

Also some talented friend bring my attention to Scratch and I count with he
and my another far away friend to see if possible to have a
"Scratch-Ladrillo", module, package or whatever you like call.

And have John Maloney wisdom into Squeak (if possible)

And more what I plan to use in my race to Board 2009 candidate and Brest
2009 Amazing Beer Squeak with all you...

Edgar , Advocatus Diaboli and Ombusdman (Defensor del Pueblo)