[squeak-dev] DeltaStreams at ESUG in Brest

> Hi folks!
>
> Back from Brest and a GREAT conference. This post is not about the
> ESUG conference though (I could write a lot about that) but about
> DeltaStreams that I presented and worked hard on while being there.
>
> We had a lot of interest in it, and not only from Squeakers.
> Unfortunately my presentation collided with Lukas/Seaside so many
> missed it. Slides are here:
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/esug/deltastreams
>
> ...and perhaps a movie is available somewhere, dunno.
>
> Status:
>
> - Igor joined me and it was real fun to finally meet in real life and
> work together. Igor is now working on a Toolbuilder based UI for
> Deltas using TestRunner as inspiration for code etc.
>
> - I hooked in Tirade fully. This means Deltas can now be filedOut and
> read back in using Tirade format. This is also covered by some smart
> tests written originally by Matthew Fulmer. Simplified Tirade in the
> process.
>
> - We fixed lots of Delta tests and the tests are now almost fully in
> the green. Hopefully in a few days more I can say 100% green.
>
> - We moved over development from 3.10.2-7179 to trunk! :) Not a big
> deal actually but we also turned the base patches into MCs so you can
> actually pull DeltaStreams into trunk by loading one MC, and then
> running a single liner that uses Installer to pull in the rest.
>
> - We added code for tracking DoIts and I almost burned my braincells
> figuring out a *sensible* way to deal with them. This is an
> interesting area... I will post separately I think :)
>
> - Lots and lots of other details, don't remember them all.
>
> - We also talked a lot with Pharo people about our dependencies.
> Deltas so far depend on four important pieces:
>     - SystemChangeNotification and the event classes for it.
>     - SystemEditor mainly written by Colin Putney for MC2.
>     - Toolbuilder for UIs.
>     - Tirade for serialization.
>
> We hope these dependencies will be kept up to date in most Squeak
> flavors.
>
> The change notification stuff originally written by Roel Wuyts is a
> bit messy, but it works. It could be rewritten using Announcements or
> whatever (Stephane wants that) but if we do that then we really need
> to make sure ALL Squeaks do it together. Otherwise we are going into a
> "world of hurt" for building cross fork tools.
>
> SystemEditor works in trunk, although has 11 failures. I think it is
> broken in Pharo, haven't looked closer yet.
>
> Toolbuilder is of course kept up to date in trunk by Andreas (I
> guess), I hope that Pharo will sync those changes?!
>
> Finally Tirade should work fine in all Squeaks and probably other
> Smalltalks too, just vanilla code. And since it is my code I can make
> sure it does work wherever we want Deltas to work :)
>
> Now, regarding these dependencies - Toolbuilder is of course just for
> the UIs. Deltas can still be used in a Squeak without Toolbuilder.
> Tirade is "just" for serialization, but hey, that is kinda useful :)
>
> And if SystemEditor does not work (does it work in Cuis?) then we will
> need an extra applier written that uses the "regular style" for
> messing with classes. That should not be hard to do, just mimic what a
> Changeset does more or less. And I have had that on the todo list for
> a while.
>
> regards, Göran

> Hi Göran,
>
> Göran Krampe wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks!
>>
>> Back from Brest and a GREAT conference. This post is not about the ESUG
>> conference though (I could write a lot about that) but about DeltaStreams
>> that I presented and worked hard on while being there.
>>
>> We had a lot of interest in it, and not only from Squeakers. Unfortunately
>> my presentation collided with Lukas/Seaside so many missed it. Slides are
>> here:
>>
>> http://www.slideshare.net/esug/deltastreams
>>
>> ...and perhaps a movie is available somewhere, dunno.
>>
>> Status:
>>
>> - Igor joined me and it was real fun to finally meet in real life and work
>> together. Igor is now working on a Toolbuilder based UI for Deltas using
>> TestRunner as inspiration for code etc.
>>
>> - I hooked in Tirade fully. This means Deltas can now be filedOut and read
>> back in using Tirade format. This is also covered by some smart tests
>> written originally by Matthew Fulmer. Simplified Tirade in the process.
>>
>> - We fixed lots of Delta tests and the tests are now almost fully in the
>> green. Hopefully in a few days more I can say 100% green.
>>
>> - We moved over development from 3.10.2-7179 to trunk! :) Not a big deal
>> actually but we also turned the base patches into MCs so you can actually
>> pull DeltaStreams into trunk by loading one MC, and then running a single
>> liner that uses Installer to pull in the rest.
>>
>> - We added code for tracking DoIts and I almost burned my braincells
>> figuring out a *sensible* way to deal with them. This is an interesting
>> area... I will post separately I think :)
>>
>> - Lots and lots of other details, don't remember them all.
>>
>> - We also talked a lot with Pharo people about our dependencies. Deltas so
>> far depend on four important pieces:
>>    - SystemChangeNotification and the event classes for it.
>>    - SystemEditor mainly written by Colin Putney for MC2.
>>    - Toolbuilder for UIs.
>>    - Tirade for serialization.
>>
>> We hope these dependencies will be kept up to date in most Squeak flavors.
>>
>> The change notification stuff originally written by Roel Wuyts is a bit
>> messy, but it works. It could be rewritten using Announcements or whatever
>> (Stephane wants that) but if we do that then we really need to make sure ALL
>> Squeaks do it together. Otherwise we are going into a "world of hurt" for
>> building cross fork tools.
>>
>> SystemEditor works in trunk, although has 11 failures. I think it is
>> broken in Pharo, haven't looked closer yet.
>>
>> Toolbuilder is of course kept up to date in trunk by Andreas (I guess), I
>> hope that Pharo will sync those changes?!
>>
>> Finally Tirade should work fine in all Squeaks and probably other
>> Smalltalks too, just vanilla code. And since it is my code I can make sure
>> it does work wherever we want Deltas to work :)
>>
>> Now, regarding these dependencies - Toolbuilder is of course just for the
>> UIs. Deltas can still be used in a Squeak without Toolbuilder. Tirade is
>> "just" for serialization, but hey, that is kinda useful :)
>>
>> And if SystemEditor does not work (does it work in Cuis?) then we will
>> need an extra applier written that uses the "regular style" for messing with
>> classes. That should not be hard to do, just mimic what a Changeset does
>> more or less. And I have had that on the todo list for a while.
>>
>> regards, Göran
>
> It is great to know DeltaStreams keeps advancing!
>
> I didn't have much time to understand the dependencies yet. I just want to
> say that I want to support DeltaStreams in Cuis.
>
> I guess I'd need to work on ToolBuilder, but I think it is a good addition
> to Cuis.
>

>
>> It is great to know DeltaStreams keeps advancing!
>>
>> I didn't have much time to understand the dependencies yet. I just want to
>> say that I want to support DeltaStreams in Cuis.
>>
>> I guess I'd need to work on ToolBuilder, but I think it is a good addition
>> to Cuis.
>>
>>    
> The ToolBuilder is a bare-bone tool which allow us to build a UI in
> declarative style, without
> specific knowledge, what exactly framework will be used to preset it to user.
> If you having something different in mind (like making own UI-building
> tool) , it could be done pretty easily ;)
>
>  

>> I need to study a bit SystemEditor and the SystemChangeNotification. Not
>> sure if I'll want to load that code (I really need to check it), but in any
>> case I'm willing to make easonable alternatives to work in Cuis to support
>> DeltaStreams.
>>
>>    
> To work properly , delta needs to hook in to some places of system ,
> in order to be able to record all events related to changes.
> It is not really relevant , in what way it hooking up, what is
> relevant is to be able to nicely capture all things the developer
> doing.
> Thus, you can provide own layer for capturing system editing events
> and deltas will happily use it.

> Hi!
>
> Juan Vuletich wrote:
>>
>> I want to use DS to replace change sets. So I need the traditional gui:
>> Change Lists, Change Sorters, etc, or something similar to them.
>
> Yeah, one idea that is a "hack" of course would be to see if we could make a
> Delta "mimic" a Changeset or if we could make a wrapper to make it look like
> one.
>
> ...or just copy those tools and change the parts that needs to be changed.
>
> regards, Göran
>
>
>

>
>> I need to study a bit SystemEditor and the SystemChangeNotification.
>> Not sure if I'll want to load that code (I really need to check it),
>> but in any case I'm willing to make easonable alternatives to work in
>> Cuis to support DeltaStreams.
>
> As Igor explained SystemChangeNotification is about capturing events.
> If you have alternative ways in Cuis (haven't looked at Cuis yet) it
> is easy to do it differently. The domain model does not know anything
> about events etc, for trunk/3.10 and Pharo that code is in
> DeltaStreams-Logging and I think it works for those flavors. AFAIK it
> was originally written by Roel Wuyts.

> Hi Göran,
>
> Göran Krampe wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't have much time to understand the dependencies yet. I just want
>>> to say that I want to support DeltaStreams in Cuis.
>>
>> Yes, that is important for us. It also means we will take care trying to
>> make that possible. :)
>
> Great!
>
>>
>>> I need to study a bit SystemEditor and the SystemChangeNotification. Not
>>> sure if I'll want to load that code (I really need to check it), but in any
>>> case I'm willing to make easonable alternatives to work in Cuis to support
>>> DeltaStreams.
>>
>> As Igor explained SystemChangeNotification is about capturing events. If
>> you have alternative ways in Cuis (haven't looked at Cuis yet) it is easy to
>> do it differently. The domain model does not know anything about events etc,
>> for trunk/3.10 and Pharo that code is in DeltaStreams-Logging and I think it
>> works for those flavors. AFAIK it was originally written by Roel Wuyts.
>
> I'd forgotten about it, but System-Change Notification is already in Cuis,
> and used for ChangeSets, etc.
>
>> The SystemEditor is the mechanism we are using today to *apply* a Delta.
>>  It is written originally by Colin Putney for use in MC2 and it offers a way
>> to make changes in an atomic fashion. Matthew has fixed several issues with
>> it along the way. Personally I find the code in SE to be... confusing. But
>> atomicity is of course nice.
>
> Just took a quick look at it. I understand that if you're using MC you want
> such a thing. But it is a bit too much to be preloaded in Cuis. I guess I
> prefer to leave it as part of MC2 for those who load it.
>
>> We will most likely also need to implement a "regular" applier using the
>> same mechanisms that Changeset does today, but that has not yet been done.
>> So yes, if SystemEditor does not work in Cuis (or you don't want it) then we
>> will need to first write either a Cuis-specific applier or write this
>> "regular" applier, and use that one.
>
> Yes. I guess this will be best for Cuis.
>

>> On my blog is the latest instruction on how to get started in trunk:
>>
>> http://goran.krampe.se/blog/Squeak/hacking-on-deltastreams2.rdoc
>>
>> Feel free to give us more info on the matters above, eventually we will
>> take a look at Cuis but we are still busy getting "stuff to work right". :)
>>
>> regards, Göran
>
> Keep up the good work!
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
>