[squeak-dev] Demo of squeak.org on Aida/Scribo ready

Le 17/03/08, karl <[hidden email]> écrivait :

>Brad Fuller wrote:
>> I didn't know there was an immediate content problem. Besides the
>> captcha, what are the content issues?
>>  
>Build bundles for 3.9.1
>Download should point to 3.9.1
>3.10 is in also very soon done.
>
>Karl


Karl, I can make the Mac bundles if somebody tell me where to find
the stuff like 3.9.1

Raymond

Raymond Asselin wrote: Great
http://ftp.squeak.org/3.9/


Karl

Dear Squeakers,

Demo of new squeak.org on http://squeaksite.aidaweb.si:9000 has now also
more public editing rights. Just login as:

        demo/demo

...and you should have Edit link up-right or edit icon below central
text. Clicking on it should open a WYSIWYG editor of content.

If you'll got a message "Please wait, page is currently locked by user:
Demo user", then someone else is just editing that page. Wait for
message: "Page is now released and ready to edit" or go back and select
other page and try editing it.. Also, editing on IE6 is not supported
yet, while IE7 is.

Try also uploading some image in below box, then simply drag it into the
text and resize it by dragging borders. Simply isn't it?

That's it, I think you can now see how easy is to maintain Scribo based
website and therefore I think it will also be easy to delegate some
maintenance duties to broader public. Of course there are still other
things to finish like RSS reader etc etc, soon, a day or two...

I hope that now you are convinced that with Aida/Scribo and vibrant
community behind which is able to deliver, a Squeak website would be in
safe hands and that you'll accept my offer.

Best regards
Janko


Janko Mivšek wrote:
--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

Looks good. The editing looks familiar with the common widgets from
editors  and powerful enough for the needs of the Squeak web site.
I have a few questions:
Do you have external persistency so we can save space on the server ?
How is content in the side boxes edited ?
Is the interface translated ?

Karl

Janko Mivšek wrote:

karl wrote:
> Looks good. The editing looks familiar with the common widgets from
> editors  and powerful enough for the needs of the Squeak web site.

Yes, we are using TinyMCE for editor and it is really nice.

> I have a few questions:
> Do you have external persistency so we can save space on the server ?

For pictures currently, while other needs to be ported/supported yet.
But image will also be snapshoted from time to time (probably every
hour) and every day it should be backed up somewhere. But that's about
50M or so, so 2x50M=100M, that's not much? I can also provide a
"disaster recovery" location for that content and we can rsync every day
there.

> How is content in the side boxes edited ?

Currently as pure HTML, but that needs to be yet improved. Currently
only admin has edit rights for that.

> Is the interface translated ?

Yes, just I need to detect language better. In an hour or so ...

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
Svetovalec za informatiko
Eranova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenija
www.eranova.si
tel:  01 514 22 55
faks: 01 514 22 56
gsm: 031 674 565

That site isn't coming up for me.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:


--
Jason Rogers

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
himself for me."
    Galatians 2:20

how i can edit download/news/links areas?
And menu.
Or this is hard-coded?

On 19/03/2008, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote: Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Being the author of Pier (and SmallWiki), I am obviously biased. I do
not intend to start a fight or to try to cancel a decision of the
board, but to me this looks more like a huge step backwards.

> As promised I prepared a demo of current Squeak website migrated to
> Aida/Scribo CMS. I migrated both design and first level of content to
> show, how flexible is Scribo in dealing with both different design and
> things like Url format in case of SmallWiki. You can see demo here:
>
>       http://squeaksite.aidaweb.si:9000

This looks rather unprofessional. The pages are full of HTML
validation errors. The layout changes and is partly corrupted in edit
mode. The search functionality is broken.   Editing does not work in
some browser.

>  > Looks good. The editing looks familiar with the common widgets from
>  > editors  and powerful enough for the needs of the Squeak web site.
>
> Yes, we are using TinyMCE for editor and it is really nice.

TinyMCE takes at least 15 seconds to load on my super fast internet
connection. Are links updated when you move/rename a page? Can content
be easily exported in other formats?

>  > How is content in the side boxes edited ?
>
> Currently as pure HTML, but that needs to be yet improved. Currently
>  only admin has edit rights for that.

Pier supports multiple in-place editing areas. Editing is done using
the well-known SWiki/SmallWiki syntax. Pages and components can be
embedded into each other and reused. The overal layout of the site is
specified using the same wiki syntax and a composition of pluggable
components.

>  > Is the interface translated ?
>
>  Yes, just I need to detect language better. In an hour or so ...

Pier is in English and MIT licensed. It has fallback for all
JavaScript functions, so it works in all current browser (if
necessary, even in a text browser).

>  >> That's it, I think you can now see how easy is to maintain Scribo
>  >> based website and therefore I think it will also be easy to delegate
>  >> some maintenance duties to broader public. Of course there are still
>  >> other things to finish like RSS reader etc etc, soon, a day or two...

Pier has a blog plugin. It can aggregate external feeds and display
them as news. It can display commit logs of Monticello repositories.
And there are dozens of other ready-made and well tested plugins
available. And it is totally RESTful and search engine friendly (see
the scores of my web-site).

I offered to Danie Roux to migrate the existing site from SmallWiki to
Pier. This is rather simple, as the document representation is
essentially the same. To do this I need the existing image though.

For details on Pier please have a look at:

    http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Archive/Reports/Reng07c.pdf

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  I offered to Danie Roux to migrate the existing site from SmallWiki to
>  Pier. This is rather simple, as the document representation is
>  essentially the same. To do this I need the existing image though.

Lukas,

Karl uploaded it for me. I will send the details to you in a private mail.

--
Danie Roux *shuffle* Adore Unix - http://danieroux.com

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  I offered to Danie Roux to migrate the existing site from SmallWiki to
>  Pier. This is rather simple, as the document representation is
>  essentially the same. To do this I need the existing image though.

Lukas,

Karl uploaded it for me. I will send the details to you in a private mail.

--
Danie Roux *shuffle* Adore Unix - http://danieroux.com

>  Karl uploaded it for me. I will send the details to you in a private mail.

Thank you Danie and Karl.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Being the author of Pier (and SmallWiki), I am obviously biased. I do
> not intend to start a fight or to try to cancel a decision of the
> board, but to me this looks more like a huge step backwards.

Well, time will tell (and is already telling) where is this step directed.

First, this is demo, migrated in one day and improving for a week. All
you mentioned will be ready soon.

And if you just talk about professionalism: look at the source of HTML
of existing and demo site, then look at the CSS, which was broken
immediately when I started to format HTML to look nice (with newlines
and indenting) and that immediately broke CSS on IE. Same HTML but
nicely formated content broke it. Professional done sites don't. Not to
mention radical overuse of CSS. Is this professionalism?

>>  > Looks good. The editing looks familiar with the common widgets from
>>  > editors  and powerful enough for the needs of the Squeak web site.
>>
>> Yes, we are using TinyMCE for editor and it is really nice.
>
> TinyMCE takes at least 15 seconds to load on my super fast internet
> connection. Are links updated when you move/rename a page? Can content
> be easily exported in other formats?

Static file serving (which brings up TinyMCE) is currently slow because
of not yet optimized SpFilename in Sport. We will address that (and
cache most of TinyMCE) soon.

Urls are not automatically changed if you rename a page, with a reason
that you'll break links on websites which point to that page. There are
special cases (like you immediately rename after creating a page) which
we will address with providing a manual action.

Scribo stores (that is, will soon) all content on the file, together
with attachments and XML metadata. That way content is completely
independent of the server above. Explicit exporting/importing is
therefore simple to add.

We can also provide in-place editing and Scribo fully supports wiki
format when needed, but because of the goal to extend editing to broader
public I think simplifying editor UI interface is important and here the
wiki syntax is a problem. To ease editing we are therefore using TinyMCE
editor and wiki syntax inside it only for opening new pages.

About components, Scribo besides usual Aida components (we are calling
them simply web elements) provides also so called scriblets, that is
components you embed in your text. For instance, image gallery can be
embedded simply by putting {GALLERY} in your text. That way you can also
put any existing component by embedding its generating method:
{:methodNAme} in text.

>>  > Is the interface translated ?
>>
>>  Yes, just I need to detect language better. In an hour or so ...
>
> Pier is in English and MIT licensed. It has fallback for all
> JavaScript functions, so it works in all current browser (if
> necessary, even in a text browser).

Aida and Scribo have strong international support included deep in
almost everything, including having content in many languages but still
on the same Url. That there is some text still in Slovenian rather shows
international support that lack of it :)

RSS reader scriblet (aka Blog plugin) is already done by Nicolas Petton,
I just need to add them on the demo.

Also other plugins, that's a matter of hour or so to be done. Currently
I'm working on better editable Downloads box, so that Release team will
maintain it by themselves.

Best regards
JAnko



--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

> First, this is demo, migrated in one day and improving for a week. All
>  you mentioned will be ready soon.

Setting up the Pier demo took less than two hours. This includes
writing the migration script, migrating all the existing content,
setting up super efficient static file serving trough Apache, and
adding the demo user. I did not worry about the styles yet, maybe the
CSS and layout of the page should be rethought anyway.

So far, I was not forced to say anything like: "will address that
soon", "not yet optimized", "simple to add", "can also provide X if
necessary", "just need need to add", "a matter of hour or so to be
done", "currently I am working", ... All this sounds very uncertain
and ad-hock. Pier has the discussed features already for years, and it
is well tested in many productive systems.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Lukas Renggli wrote:
>> First, this is demo, migrated in one day and improving for a week. All
>>  you mentioned will be ready soon.
>
> Setting up the Pier demo took less than two hours. This includes
> writing the migration script, migrating all the existing content,
> setting up super efficient static file serving trough Apache, and
> adding the demo user. I did not worry about the styles yet, maybe the
> CSS and layout of the page should be rethought anyway.

Well, if we look at your demo we see just a typical Pier install,
without Squeak website design. That's important because it took me most
of Sunday migrating design of the website, not content.

> So far, I was not forced to say anything like: "will address that
> soon", "not yet optimized", "simple to add", "can also provide X if
> necessary", "just need need to add", "a matter of hour or so to be
> done", "currently I am working", ... All this sounds very uncertain
> and ad-hock. Pier has the discussed features already for years, and it
> is well tested in many productive systems.

Most if not all promised "soons" were fullfiled last days, so this gives
quite some certainty that other soons will be too. Also, Biart as a
precedesor of Scribo is in commercial use from 2003, therefore at least
as Pier if not more. Another certainty.

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

Great discussion, guys. Can we move it to the webteam mailing list?

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:

--
Brad Fuller
www.bradfuller.com