Guys, things are becoming interesting :)
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Chrome and V8 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Griswold <[hidden email]> Reply-To: [hidden email] To: Strongtalk-general <[hidden email]> Hi everyone, It's been a while, but now that Google has announced Chrome and V8, I can finally make a little clearer a major reason why I haven't been pushing Strongtalk development for quite a while: Chrome's new JavaScript engine V8. The V8 development team has multiple members of the original Animorphic team; it is headed by Lars Bak, who was the technical lead for both Strongtalk and the HotSpot Java VM (as well as a huge contributor to the original Self VM). I think that you will find that V8 has a lot of the creamy goodness of the Strongtalk and Self VMs, with many big architectural improvements: * open source * will run (eventually) on Windows, Linux, and Mac * dynamically JITs to native code * can run completely independently from the browser * generates hidden classes behind the scenes, since javascript doesn't have them (very reminiscent of the 'maps' used in the Self VM). * is multi-threaded from the ground up, with the ability to share VM overhead between different OS processes. * has even smaller object headers than in Strongtalk, making small object overhead even smaller * kick-ass compacting, non-conservative garbage collector The really big deal here is the fundamentally multi-threaded, multi- process nature of the VM. That is something that we don't really have the ability to just hack into the Strongtalk VM; it would involve practically an entire rewrite. Plus, expect a lot of architectural improvements in the source code based on experience with Self, Strongtalk and Java Hotspot VMs. I think these properties will rapidly make V8 the dominant VM for dynamic languages. It ought to make a great platform for Smalltalk. Since I am not a Googler, and they are so secretive, I am not yet privy to all the gory details, but I suspect that it probably won't use type-feedback like Strongtalk, which would be the one big negative (and would mean that it wouldn't be as fast as Strongtalk). However I don't know that for sure, and in any case it will be open source, which means that it might be a nice platform to add type-feedback- based inlining to if they don't do it. At any rate, it *does* JIT to native code, so it will be far faster than Squeak, and probably a lot faster than Visualworks as well. We'll have to see what the details are when the code comes out, but the release of the V8 VM is the beginning of a whole new era for dynamic languages (Smalltalk, Ruby, Python, etc). Let the flood of fast new dynamic language implementations begin! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Strongtalk-general" group. To post to this group, send email to [hidden email] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [hidden email] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/strongtalk-general?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si |
2008/9/2 Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]>:
> Guys, things are becoming interesting :) > Indeed! Especially kick-ass GC :) > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Chrome and V8 > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Dave Griswold <[hidden email]> > Reply-To: [hidden email] > To: Strongtalk-general <[hidden email]> > > > Hi everyone, > > It's been a while, but now that Google has announced Chrome and V8, I > can finally make a little clearer a major reason why I haven't been > pushing Strongtalk development for quite a while: Chrome's new > JavaScript engine V8. > > The V8 development team has multiple members of the original > Animorphic team; it is headed by Lars Bak, who was the technical lead > for both Strongtalk and the HotSpot Java VM (as well as a huge > contributor to the original Self VM). I think that you will find > that V8 has a lot of the creamy goodness of the Strongtalk and Self > VMs, with many big architectural improvements: > > * open source > * will run (eventually) on Windows, Linux, and Mac > * dynamically JITs to native code > * can run completely independently from the browser > * generates hidden classes behind the scenes, since javascript doesn't > have them (very reminiscent of the 'maps' used in the Self VM). > * is multi-threaded from the ground up, with the ability to share VM > overhead between different OS processes. > * has even smaller object headers than in Strongtalk, making small > object overhead even smaller > * kick-ass compacting, non-conservative garbage collector > > The really big deal here is the fundamentally multi-threaded, multi- > process nature of the VM. That is something that we don't really have > the ability to just hack into the Strongtalk VM; it would involve > practically an entire rewrite. Plus, expect a lot of architectural > improvements in the source code based on experience with Self, > Strongtalk and Java Hotspot VMs. > > I think these properties will rapidly make V8 the dominant VM for > dynamic languages. It ought to make a great platform for Smalltalk. > > Since I am not a Googler, and they are so secretive, I am not yet > privy to all the gory details, but I suspect that it probably won't > use type-feedback like Strongtalk, which would be the one big negative > (and would mean that it wouldn't be as fast as Strongtalk). However I > don't know that for sure, and in any case it will be open source, > which means that it might be a nice platform to add type-feedback- > based inlining to if they don't do it. At any rate, it *does* JIT to > native code, so it will be far faster than Squeak, and probably a lot > faster than Visualworks as well. > > We'll have to see what the details are when the code comes out, but > the release of the V8 VM is the beginning of a whole new era for > dynamic languages (Smalltalk, Ruby, Python, etc). > > Let the flood of fast new dynamic language implementations begin! > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Strongtalk-general" group. > To post to this group, send email to [hidden email] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [hidden email] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/strongtalk-general?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > > > -- > Janko Mivšek > AIDA/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. |
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