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[squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

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Gary Dunn

[squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

Today it occurred to me that Alan Kay intended Squeak to be UI for the
Dynabook. I run Squeak on Gnome on FreeBSD, so just for fun I disabled
Gnome and started a plain X session using twm, and from an xterm I
launched Squeak. It looked just like it does in Gnome. The only
difference I detected in this simple test was that pop-up menus opened
slower.

Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
I could test it by writing a .xinitrc file but I don't know how badly
this could turn out.

If it turns out that Squeak needs a window manager, which of the simple
window managers work well?

--
Gary Dunn, Honolulu
[hidden email]
http://openslate.net/
http://e9erust.blogspot.com/
Sent from Slate001

Derek O'Connell-2

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

Maybe the framebuffer option will interest you:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3484

Have not tried it myself recently so cannot comment further.

laurent laffont

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
I could test it by writing a .xinitrc file but I don't know how badly
this could turn out.

Switch to a text console then type something like:
xinit /usr/bin/squeak -fullscreen /path/to/my.image -- :1

This will start an Xserver running only squeak.

See 'man xinit' for several examples.

Laurent.

K. K. Subramaniam

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 2:29:57 pm Gary Dunn wrote:
> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
Yes. I once launched Squeak from a single user console on a machine that had
only 64MB RAM! Squeak can be run from within a desktop, directly from X (use -
fullscreen), within a browser (using npsqueak.so plugin) or directly from the
console (-vm-display-fbdev). Make sure you env settings and permissions are
setup correctly. E.g.

$ startx /usr/local/bin/squeak -vm-display-X11 -swapbtn ~/squeak.image -- :1

$ squeak -vm-display-fbdev ~/squeak.image

I am not sure how much these modes are supported, though.

Subbu

David T. Lewis

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:59:57PM -1000, Gary Dunn wrote:

> Today it occurred to me that Alan Kay intended Squeak to be UI for the
> Dynabook. I run Squeak on Gnome on FreeBSD, so just for fun I disabled
> Gnome and started a plain X session using twm, and from an xterm I
> launched Squeak. It looked just like it does in Gnome. The only
> difference I detected in this simple test was that pop-up menus opened
> slower.
>
> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
> I could test it by writing a .xinitrc file but I don't know how badly
> this could turn out.

Yes, I've done this. I also have OSProcess and CommandShell in the image
so I have access to the OS from Squeak. It works fine, although I don't
usually run it this way because it's easier to just put Squeak into
full screen mode. But it does work, and no window manager is required.

If you want to get even more minimal about it, you can use Squeak as
a /bin/sh replacement, running a headless image with an ExternalCommandShell
running in the image (part of CommandShell package). Again, not terribly
useful but it does work.

Dave

Alan Grimes-2

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
> I could test it by writing a .xinitrc file but I don't know how badly
> this could turn out.

A bunch of lobbying on my part coaxed Ian into finishing the framebuffer
driver for Squeak so you don't even need to run x'doze at all to use
Squeak. For example, on my server I run the Swiki server in framebuffer
mode to conserve the 384mb of ram I have in the machine. =P

Lemme go look at the script I use.

"
squeak -vm-display-fbdev -vtswitch
"

issues: the mouse isn't very responsive and the video made is left in a
very sub-optimal state. =\

Furthermore, since the VM is very very unreliable, you're apt to crash
yourself within twenty minutes. =(

--
New president: Here we go again...
Chemistry.com: A total rip-off.
Powers are not rights.

Bert Freudenberg

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

On 29.07.2009, at 10:59, Gary Dunn wrote:

> Today it occurred to me that Alan Kay intended Squeak to be UI for the
> Dynabook. I run Squeak on Gnome on FreeBSD, so just for fun I disabled
> Gnome and started a plain X session using twm, and from an xterm I
> launched Squeak. It looked just like it does in Gnome. The only
> difference I detected in this simple test was that pop-up menus opened
> slower.
>
> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per
> se?
> I could test it by writing a .xinitrc file but I don't know how badly
> this could turn out.

I once made a session file for GDM which would run Squeak fullscreen
without any window manager. Worked fine, and was incredibly fast to
launch :)

- Bert -

Gary Dunn

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 15:04:04 K. K. Subramaniam wrote:

> On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 2:29:57 pm Gary Dunn wrote:
>> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
>
> Yes. I once launched Squeak from a single user console on a machine that
> had only 64MB RAM! Squeak can be run from within a desktop, directly from X
> (use -fullscreen), within a browser (using npsqueak.so plugin) or directly
> from the console (-vm-display-fbdev). Make sure you env settings and
> permissions are setup correctly. E.g.
>
> $ startx /usr/local/bin/squeak -vm-display-X11 -swapbtn ~/squeak.image -- :1
>
> $ squeak -vm-display-fbdev ~/squeak.image
>
> I am not sure how much these modes are supported, though.
>
> Subbu

Thanks to everyone who replied. On FreeBSD 7.1 the best I could get was Squeak without a window manager and a World desktop that occupied about 80% of the screen.

o -fullscreen option is documented bwt not recognized.

o fbdev is not found, possibly unique to Linux.

Question: why did eveyone specify device :1 when the default is :0? I got the Same results
--
Gary Dunn, Honolulu
[hidden email]
http://openslate.net/
http://e9erust.blogspot.com/
Sent from a Newton 2100 via Mail V

laurent laffont

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

Question: why did eveyone specify device :1 when the default is :0? I got the Same results

Because many of us already have a Xserver running on :0

Laurent Laffont

K. K. Subramaniam

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

On Friday 31 Jul 2009 3:17:00 am Gary Dunn wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who replied. On FreeBSD 7.1 the best I could get was
> Squeak without a window manager and a World desktop that occupied about 80%
> of the screen.
World is just a special PasteUp Morph. In World menu, do
appearance -> full screen on
to force it to fill the screen. Save the image and it will remember the size
next time. The code to do this is:
DisplayScreen fullScreenOn.

HTH .. Subbu

Douglas Brebner

Re: [squeak-dev] Minimal window manager

In reply to this post by Gary Dunn

Gary Dunn wrote:

> On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 15:04:04 K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 29 Jul 2009 2:29:57 pm Gary Dunn wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone tried running Squeak from X without a window manager per se?
>>>
>> Yes. I once launched Squeak from a single user console on a machine that
>> had only 64MB RAM! Squeak can be run from within a desktop, directly from X
>> (use -fullscreen), within a browser (using npsqueak.so plugin) or directly
>> from the console (-vm-display-fbdev). Make sure you env settings and
>> permissions are setup correctly. E.g.
>>
>> $ startx /usr/local/bin/squeak -vm-display-X11 -swapbtn ~/squeak.image -- :1
>>
>> $ squeak -vm-display-fbdev ~/squeak.image
>>
>> I am not sure how much these modes are supported, though.
>>
>> Subbu
>>
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied. On FreeBSD 7.1 the best I could get was Squeak without a window manager and a World desktop that occupied about 80% of the screen.
>
> o -fullscreen option is documented bwt not recognized.
>
> o fbdev is not found, possibly unique to Linux.
>

fbdev is Linux specific. I think that wscons is going to be the *BSD
equivalent.