Andreas,
Ok, Zen session management. One thing I like about Dolphin's approach is there is a clear startup, so things like initializing the network have a home and do not need to appear anywhere else. Here, it appears that Seaside was running when the image was saved, so it's running when it reloads. The startup lists seem to cause a mix of initialization or sometimes simply tear things down to force subsequent lazy initialization. Is that a reasonable summary? As for preferred OS, this comes to you courtesy of Ubuntu. The biggest concern I have is that the switch involves some platform independent graphics that will be non-trivial to replace. I am sufficiently tired of Windows hassles (not to mention wondering what they will break next...) that I would be willing to sacrifice some features, hopefully temporarily, to leave Windows behind. With luck, I will be able to get Linux/Pharo images to pass around some "Windows specific data" that is generated and interpreted by what will be the last machines to convert. It requires some fairly hard work up front, and eventually a nearly complete rewrite of something that could probably stand to have its entrails straightened and cleaned anyway. Before that, I will move something that does LOTS of serial communications; I'm actually looking forward to that, as I would get some noticeable benefits from the switch. Before I get to the ugly part, I hope to have amassed lots of positive experience suggesting that Squeak/Pharo is sufficiently stable and fast enough to do the job. Asking this of the creator and maintainer of the Windows VM is perhaps a little cruel, but please understand it is not meant that way. Do you have a sense of whether Windows is to be avoided because it is largely junk, or because the Windows port of Squeak has inherent flaws? IIRC, you reached a point of frustration with Squeak, and were thinking of rewriting some servers in Java. That triggered some semaphore and delay fixes that seemed to be quite helpful to many users. Did that fix the troubles for you? Did you further find it necessary to dump Windows to get relief (that's probably a little redundant given your comments)? Were you able to avoid the server rewrites? Thanks! Bill =========================== Andreas Raab andreas.raab at gmx.de Wed Oct 15 07:16:28 UTC 2008 Bill Schwab wrote: > Instead of the started/stopped business, it said that it could not start > the service. I had been wondering about that, but the messages from XP > and 2k3 were more suggestive that Squeak/Pharo was deciding to quit due > to inability to access files, the network, etc. At least that is what a > Dolphin server would do: discover it has no running socket/COM/etc. > services and the bail out, unless overridden in the current session > manager. I'm still trying to get inside Squeak/Pharo's head in that > regard. It's really simple. There is *nothing* towards that end. The only thing that does anything is code that you write. No session manager, no console, no nothing. Don't assume there is anything because there ain't. > Anything you have learned about tracing services on the various flavors > of Windows could be helpful. I am tempted to finish off the Apache > configuration and test the Seaside app, but hopefully I will have enough > sense to have a well-deserved beer and watch a movie or something. The only thing I've learned is this: If you're running a service that you want to be available you don't run it on Windows. Ever. Go buy a box at Hetzner.de[*] for EUR49 a month, put Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on it and you're set for the next five years. This can be done in less than a day and you have a production-ready environment. For development, run the same setup in a VMware image on your preferred choice of machine (windows is fine for that). Note that since VMplayer is free all you need to find is a suitable VMware image, which is right here: http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/1223. [*] Anyone knowing of a service of similar quality in the US or Canada? Cheers, - Andreas Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: [hidden email] Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 |
Bill Schwab wrote:
> Ok, Zen session management. One thing I like about Dolphin's approach > is there is a clear startup, so things like initializing the network > have a home and do not need to appear anywhere else. Here, it appears > that Seaside was running when the image was saved, so it's running when > it reloads. The startup lists seem to cause a mix of initialization or > sometimes simply tear things down to force subsequent lazy > initialization. Is that a reasonable summary? Depends on the app. You might want to ask this question on the Seaside list. > As for preferred OS, this comes to you courtesy of Ubuntu. The biggest > concern I have is that the switch involves some platform independent > graphics that will be non-trivial to replace. Ah, I see. I thought that you were running pure server code since you were interested in Apache+Seaside+Services. If your project isn't easily portable it is probably not the right approach. > Asking this of the creator and maintainer of the Windows VM is perhaps a > little cruel, but please understand it is not meant that way. Do you > have a sense of whether Windows is to be avoided because it is largely > junk, or because the Windows port of Squeak has inherent flaws? I like Windows. I like Squeak. I use them every day. But it doesn't lead me to confuse it with a reliable server OS anymore than I would think of running a production service on the iPhone or the Xbox. They are all great for what they do but it's not running services. > IIRC, you reached a point of frustration with Squeak, and were thinking > of rewriting some servers in Java. That triggered some semaphore and > delay fixes that seemed to be quite helpful to many users. Did that fix > the troubles for you? Did you further find it necessary to dump Windows > to get relief (that's probably a little redundant given your comments)? > Were you able to avoid the server rewrites? This is not an entirely accurate recollection of the events but the delay and semaphore fixes greatly helped reliability of our services (which have always been run on Linux boxes). Cheers, - Andreas |
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