[squeak-dev] Squeak and the iPhone

> I'm pleased to say that I'm one of the 1.5% of the iPhone developer
> population that has been
> accepted to officially build applications for distribution via Apple's
> iPhone Application Store.
>
> Because of this I have embarked on a 93 work day journey to build a
> new fully documented Objective C based source
> tree to host the Squeak VM on the iPhone and as a 64bit VM on OS-X.
>
> Likely this *might* take longer and it *hinges* on the ability to get
> funding from various sources for the effort.
> So funding offers are welcome.
>
> Not only is there VM support work involved, one needs to adapt to the
> multi-touch paradigm and become
> much less keyboard input orientated, plus use platform widgets for
> selection input.
>
> Helpfully the folks from Impara have agreed to take on some of that
> effort, and I'm sure they could use some funding to speed that process.
>
> People who are interested in offering Squeak based applications either
> via the free store, or
> selling via the paid store are welcome to contact me, likely I will
> provide for a fee a support agreement
> for the base iPhone VM and arrange sell-thru opportunities for paid
> applications.
>
> Sadly because of Apple's legal obligations not all application types
> and general Squeak functionality
> is acceptable to Apple for sale thru the store, or even offered via
> the free store. The list of "tho shall not do" is quite lengthy.
> Still I think there is an opportunity to deliver interesting Squeak
> based applications on the iPhone and iPod Touch.
>
> After 15 days of work just to cross check feasibility I can offer up
> the attached image of  Squeak  3.4 running on an iPod Touch, I could
> have picked a 3.10 image, but the 3.4 screen below is more visually
> exciting.
>
> At  the current 20 days of work I have screen orientation working
> (mostly), drawing, basic touching to mouse event translation,
> suffered thru 3 beta versions of the SDK, and posted a few interesting
> bug reports with Apple, and yes likely behind in my estimated timetable.
>
> Still as the other developers here at WWDC 08 (yes I am in SF at the
> moment) have noted getting something up
> and running is fast, it's just the other painful 10%...
>
> For the curious the VM that I have built & somewhat tuned does about
> 21,548,821 bytecode/sec; and 564,465 sends/sec
>
> Digging in the history books this is equivalent to a 233Mhz 603e
> powerbook. If you are excited about running
> your Squeak app on the iPhone, think hard about the meaning of these
> numbers... Also consider that 64MB of memory
> use is pushing the Apple's imposed safety limits right to the max.
>
> --
> =
> =
> =
> ========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> =
> =
> =
> ========================================================================
>
>

> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:26 AM, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
> Because of this I have embarked on a 93 work day journey to build a  
> new fully documented Objective C based source
> tree to host the Squeak VM on the iPhone and as a 64bit VM on OS-X.
>
> John,
>
> Does this mean the normal Mac VM will now become ObjC/Cocoa based?  
> (assuming it isn't already)
>
> - Stephen
>
>

> Hi folks!
>
>> Because of this I have embarked on a 93 work day journey to build a
>> new fully documented Objective C based source
>> tree to host the Squeak VM on the iPhone and as a 64bit VM on OS-X.
>
> Cool news indeed! So... apart from the obvious fruit from this  
> effort can
> we thus also expect the following:
>
> - Multitouch Squeak level support of some kind?

> I'm pleased to say that I'm one of the 1.5% of the iPhone developer
> population that has been
> accepted to officially build applications for distribution via Apple's
> iPhone Application Store.
>
> Because of this I have embarked on a 93 work day journey to build a new
> fully documented Objective C based source
> tree to host the Squeak VM on the iPhone and as a 64bit VM on OS-X.
>
> Likely this *might* take longer and it *hinges* on the ability to get
> funding from various sources for the effort.
> So funding offers are welcome.
>
> Not only is there VM support work involved, one needs to adapt to the
> multi-touch paradigm and become
> much less keyboard input orientated, plus use platform widgets for selection
> input.
>
> Helpfully the folks from Impara have agreed to take on some of that effort,
> and I'm sure they could use some funding to speed that process.
>
> People who are interested in offering Squeak based applications either via
> the free store, or
> selling via the paid store are welcome to contact me, likely I will provide
> for a fee a support agreement
> for the base iPhone VM and arrange sell-thru opportunities for paid
> applications.
>
> Sadly because of Apple's legal obligations not all application types and
> general Squeak functionality
> is acceptable to Apple for sale thru the store, or even offered via the free
> store. The list of "tho shall not do" is quite lengthy.
> Still I think there is an opportunity to deliver interesting Squeak based
> applications on the iPhone and iPod Touch.
>
> After 15 days of work just to cross check feasibility I can offer up the
> attached image of  Squeak  3.4 running on an iPod Touch, I could
> have picked a 3.10 image, but the 3.4 screen below is more visually
> exciting.
>
> At  the current 20 days of work I have screen orientation working (mostly),
> drawing, basic touching to mouse event translation,
> suffered thru 3 beta versions of the SDK, and posted a few interesting bug
> reports with Apple, and yes likely behind in my estimated timetable.
>
> Still as the other developers here at WWDC 08 (yes I am in SF at the moment)
> have noted getting something up
> and running is fast, it's just the other painful 10%...
>
> For the curious the VM that I have built & somewhat tuned does about
> 21,548,821 bytecode/sec; and 564,465 sends/sec
>
> Digging in the history books this is equivalent to a 233Mhz 603e powerbook.
> If you are excited about running
> your Squeak app on the iPhone, think hard about the meaning of these
> numbers... Also consider that 64MB of memory
> use is pushing the Apple's imposed safety limits right to the max.

>
>  On Jun 11, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Have the licensing terms changed and programs that can run other
> > programs now allowed on the iPhone?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
>
>
>
>  No the licensing has not changed, which is why:

> I'm pleased to say that I'm one of the 1.5% of the iPhone developer  
> population that has been
> accepted to officially build applications for distribution via  
> Apple's iPhone Application Store.
>
> Because of this I have embarked on a 93 work day journey to build a  
> new fully documented Objective C based source
> tree to host the Squeak VM on the iPhone and as a 64bit VM on OS-X.
>
> Likely this *might* take longer and it *hinges* on the ability to  
> get funding from various sources for the effort.
> So funding offers are welcome.
>
> Not only is there VM support work involved, one needs to adapt to  
> the multi-touch paradigm and become
> much less keyboard input orientated, plus use platform widgets for  
> selection input.
>
> Helpfully the folks from Impara have agreed to take on some of that  
> effort, and I'm sure they could use some funding to speed that  
> process.
>
> People who are interested in offering Squeak based applications  
> either via the free store, or
> selling via the paid store are welcome to contact me, likely I will  
> provide for a fee a support agreement
> for the base iPhone VM and arrange sell-thru opportunities for paid  
> applications.
>
> Sadly because of Apple's legal obligations not all application types  
> and general Squeak functionality
> is acceptable to Apple for sale thru the store, or even offered via  
> the free store. The list of "tho shall not do" is quite lengthy.
> Still I think there is an opportunity to deliver interesting Squeak  
> based applications on the iPhone and iPod Touch.
>
> After 15 days of work just to cross check feasibility I can offer up  
> the attached image of  Squeak  3.4 running on an iPod Touch, I could
> have picked a 3.10 image, but the 3.4 screen below is more visually  
> exciting.
>
> At  the current 20 days of work I have screen orientation working  
> (mostly), drawing, basic touching to mouse event translation,
> suffered thru 3 beta versions of the SDK, and posted a few  
> interesting bug reports with Apple, and yes likely behind in my  
> estimated timetable.
>
> Still as the other developers here at WWDC 08 (yes I am in SF at the  
> moment) have noted getting something up
> and running is fast, it's just the other painful 10%...
>
> For the curious the VM that I have built & somewhat tuned does about  
> 21,548,821 bytecode/sec; and 564,465 sends/sec
>
> Digging in the history books this is equivalent to a 233Mhz 603e  
> powerbook. If you are excited about running
> your Squeak app on the iPhone, think hard about the meaning of these  
> numbers... Also consider that 64MB of memory
> use is pushing the Apple's imposed safety limits right to the max.
>
> --
> =
> =
> =
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://
> www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> =
> =
> =
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
>
> <Default.png>

> Merik Voswinkel wrote:
>
>> Apple agrees. I was the one funding John's 93 days and Impara, but  
>> I have now withdrawn this funding because we only support open  
>> source.
>
> Which is not correct as the funding (from NLnet) was supposed to  
> support building an OpenSource iPhone VM. But that really doesn't  
> belong on the mailing list.
>
> Michael