[squeak-dev] The version 3.10 does not work on Linux.

> --------- Sorry by my google english--------------
>
> The version 3.10 does not work on Linux.
>
> Folks.
>            This afternoon download the 2 (3.10 and 3.10-1 Versions)
> official versions from the official FTP but these images doesn't run
> on Linux (my desktop is a kubuntu.).
>            By some
> one reason, world doesn't is displayed . As I did
> not leave any log or anything similar I cant give you more details.
>            I Understand,  that most of you have mac and this is the
> test platform by excellence, but take into consideration that there
> are an enormous number of people who do not have the
> resources and the only alternative we have left (without falling into
> piracy, off course) , is linux.
>            Furthermore, since the personal field, I recommend  give
> more support to open sources platforms, of which we are a part.
>            Giving more support as Mac and Windows platforms, is a sort
> of betrayal.
>            I really cant judge (in addition to recently that I am in
> this community) what are the motivations that each has to carry squeak
> ahead, but
>            I can say is that Squeak must be faithful to their roots
> and ideals and become an option allowing the development of quality in
> the purest form possible POO.
>            Since no environments objects "Clean" are not part of the
> technology of "Main Stream" I think that everyone is responsible is
> reached REALES consistent with what is
>
> preaches in Squeak and not just to be supportive "dummy" to open
> source platforms and development is made on platforms and shut out of
> reach for most of us who
>
> we live south of Rio Grande.
>            As a last resort I had to download and use the latest
> images of Demian Causses (which actually runs on all platforms
> supported by squeak).
>            I do not take bad, but I think that instead of discussing
> fribolidades as renaming a squeak or if it is only a platform for
> research or not, we should seek to improve this
>
> towards a modular platform and have a solid.
>            For this goal we need the board to take reins in the matter
> and will lead to the release team with a clear objective, and not be
> carried by winds from a list of mail or those who
>
> IRC # pass.
> I believe that the inclusion of Dan Ingalls on the board would take
> such an effect, but it seems that we will have to wait for another
> leader emerges who drives the fate of squeak.
>
> I hope you do not take my comments wrong, try to be as frank as possible.
> I ask forgiveness if something political mistake committed, but this
> is what I think.
> I write the mail in two languages I know to be more clear with everyone.
>
> Honestly.
>
> La version 3.10 no funciona en linux.
>
> Amigos:
>           Esta tarde baje las 2 versiones oficiales, que estan el ftp
> de squeak y ninguna de estas funciona en linux (mi desktop es un
> kubuntu.).
>           Por algún motivo particular nunca se abre el mundo. Como no
> me deja ningun log no puedo darles mas detalles.
>           Yo en tiendo que la mayoría de ustedes tenga mac, y esa sea
> la plataforma de prueba por excelencia, pero tengan en cuenta que hay
> una enorme cantidad de gente que no disponemos de los recursos y la
> única alternativa que nos queda (sin caer en la piratería
> porsupuesto), es linux.
>           Por otro lado, y ya desde el ambito personal, les recomiendo
> que apoyen mas a las plataformas open sources, de la cuales somos
> parte.
>           Dar mas soporte a plataformas como mac y windows, es algún
> tipo de traición.
>           Realmente no puedo juzgar. (ademas que hace poco tiempo que
> estoy en esta comunidad) cuales son las motivaciones que cada uno
> tiene para formar parte de Squeak, pero lo que si
>
> puedo decir, es que Squeak debe ser fiel a sus raices e ideales, y
> convertirse en una opcion de calidad que permita desarrollar en la
> forma mas pura posible la POO.
>           Dado que los entornos de objetos "Limpios" no son parte de
> las tecnología del "Main Stream" creo que es reponsabilidad de todos,
> que los se llegue a realeses coherentes con lo que se
>
> predica en Squeak y no solo que se de soporte "dummy" a las
> plataformas open source, y que el desarrollo se haga sobre plataformas
> cerradas y fuera del alcance de la mayoria de nosotros que vivimos al
> sur de rio grande.
>           Como ultimo recurso tuve que bajar y usar las ultimas
> imagenes de Demian Causso (que realmente funcionan en todos las
> plataforma soportadas por squeak).
>           No me tomen a mal, pero creo que en lugar de discutir
> fribolidades como cambiar el nombre a squeak o si es solo una
> plataforma de investigacion o no, deberíamos buscar mejorar esta
>
> en pos de una tener una plataforma modular y solida.
>           Para este objetivo necesitamos que el board tome acciones al
> respeto y conduzca al release team con un objetivo claro, y no sea
> llevado por los vientos de una lista de mail o los que
>
> pase en #IRC.
> Yo crei que la inclusion de Dan Ingalls en el board iba a tener en ese
> efecto, pero parece que vamos a tener que esperar que surja otro lider
> que conduzca el destino de squeak.
>
> Espero que no tomen a mal mis comentarios, trate de ser lo mas franco posible.
> Les pido perdon si cometi algo error politico, pero esto es lo que pienso.
>
> Sinceramente.
>

> Norbert,
>
> Thank for you answer, but this case this not is my problem.
> Before to write the previous mail, I was researching a lot of time and
> find the color problem in internet.
> after that, I tried solve the problem, such as you mention in you
> answer, but nothing, I can't interact with the world
>
> But, the previous mail is a warning, please, "More atention to open
> source platform",
>
> if you compare the squeak implementation  in windows, mac and linux
> you will see alot of diferents, such as,  when you close the world
> form the window menu. In linux squeak is killed without question, in
> windows the squeak ask you if you are sure of the action.
> In that simple details or the bigger details such as the color depth,
> you can see the disinterest  of squeak's team on open source platform
> (at least in the releases's testing).
>
> please don't forget of the south people. thank you for you answer again.
>
>

> 2008/5/30 Diogenes Moreira <[hidden email]>:
>> Norbert,
>>
>> Thank for you answer, but this case this not is my problem.
>> Before to write the previous mail, I was researching a lot of time and
>> find the color problem in internet.
>>after that, I tried solve the problem, such as you mention in you
>> answer, but nothing, I can't interact with the world
>>
>> But, the previous mail is a warning, please, "More atention to open
>> source platform",
>>
>> if you compare the squeak implementation  in windows, mac and linux
>> you will see alot of diferents, such as,  when you close the world
>> form the window menu. In linux squeak is killed without question, in
>> windows the squeak ask you if you are sure of the action.
>> In that simple details or the bigger details such as the color depth,
>> you can see the disinterest  of squeak's team on open source platform
>> (at least in the releases's testing).
>>
>> please don't forget of the south people. thank you for you answer again.
>>
>>
>
> The release team pays attention on releasing images, not for releasing VMs.
> For each platform we have different people who supporting the platform code.
>
> And besides, Squeak is open source too.
> Instead of blaming others who 'not paying attention to open source
> platform', you can take part in improving things and provide code
> updates/fixes.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
>

> Anyway forgiveness for my confusion over the release team and the VM team.
>
> By the way, I'm using an image that I was having problems with the
> file changes. We note that the stamp of the methods are not stored in
> UTF-8, in the common cases should have no problem, but if someone puts
> extended in the sign ASCII characters are stored wrong. That what I
> discovered working with the port of Glorp, if they need a reference.
>
> PS: I will debugging the C + + code to see if I can find the current
> problem. If I find  something, i'll send a fixs or advices, Where can
> send a fixes or updates?
>

> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Diogenes Moreira
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> such as,  when you close the world
>> form the window menu. In linux squeak is killed without question, in
>> windows the squeak ask you if you are sure of the action.
>
> There was discussion regarding this issue about a year ago. I thought
> someone, (it might have been Ian), came up with a potential solution
> that got us part of the way. You might check the archives. I can't
> remember the final outcome.

> Igor Stasenko ha scritto:
>>
>> 2008/5/30 Diogenes Moreira <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> The release team pays attention on releasing images, not for releasing
>> VMs.
>> For each platform we have different people who supporting the platform
>> code.
>>
>
> Am I the only one who thinks that this is wrong?

> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Diogenes Moreira
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> such as,  when you close the world
>> form the window menu. In linux squeak is killed without question, in
>> windows the squeak ask you if you are sure of the action.
>
> There was discussion regarding this issue about a year ago. I thought
> someone, (it might have been Ian), came up with a potential solution
> that got us part of the way. You might check the archives. I can't
> remember the final outcome.
>
> Obviously, you should close squeak from the world menu to circumvent
> the problem.

> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Giovanni Corriga <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Igor Stasenko ha scritto:
>>> 2008/5/30 Diogenes Moreira <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> The release team pays attention on releasing images, not for releasing
>>> VMs.
>>> For each platform we have different people who supporting the platform
>>> code.
>>>
>> Am I the only one who thinks that this is wrong?
>
> It seems appropriate that people with the specific skills of the
> platform should maintain the VM code.
> Doesn't it?
>

> Giovanni Corriga wrote:
>> I'm not talking about mantaining, I'm talking about releasing. Squeak
>> is the only system that I know of where the VM/interpreter is not
>> released at the same time as "the runtime". We should try and have new
>> VMs released when we release the new image, if only to make things
>> more understandable for the beginners.
>
> Can you explain what exactly you mean by "more understandable for
> beginners"? The current situation is such that we have updated 3.10 VMs
> available at http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/ which (outside of John's naming
> scheme) reflect the 3.10 heritage accurately. These VMs were available
> in alpha and beta versions earlier and are now available alongside the
> appropriate image release. What's not to understand about that?
>

> Andreas Raab ha scritto:
>>
>> Giovanni Corriga wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about mantaining, I'm talking about releasing. Squeak is
>>> the only system that I know of where the VM/interpreter is not released at
>>> the same time as "the runtime". We should try and have new VMs released when
>>> we release the new image, if only to make things more understandable for the
>>> beginners.
>>
>> Can you explain what exactly you mean by "more understandable for
>> beginners"? The current situation is such that we have updated 3.10 VMs
>> available at http://ftp.squeak.org/3.10/ which (outside of John's naming
>> scheme) reflect the 3.10 heritage accurately. These VMs were available in
>> alpha and beta versions earlier and are now available alongside the
>> appropriate image release. What's not to understand about that?
>>
>
> At the moment, the current version of the Windows vm is 3.10.6 . If I where
> a newbie, I would expect to have a 3.10.6 image too, to use with that vm.

> Giovanni Corriga wrote:
>> At the moment, the current version of the Windows vm is 3.10.6 . If  
>> I where a newbie, I would expect to have a 3.10.6 image too, to use  
>> with that vm.
>
> I see. It seems difficult to change that though, because the VMs do  
> evolve differently. Any ideas how to improve the situation?
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>

>
> At the moment I'm fully occupied with a VM rewrite, post Sophie era, so
> I'll take hints on what the new macintosh version should be called...
>
>
> On May 31, 2008, at 10:46 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>> Giovanni Corriga wrote:
>>> At the moment, the current version of the Windows vm is 3.10.6 . If I
>>> where a newbie, I would expect to have a 3.10.6 image too, to use
>>> with that vm.
>>
>> I see. It seems difficult to change that though, because the VMs do
>> evolve differently. Any ideas how to improve the situation?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>  - Andreas
>>
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>