[squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire? What?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Igor
> Stasenko
> Sent: 24 April 2008 5:12 PM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Update Stream Gone? Replaced with Sapphire?
> What?
>
>
> I can't imagine how such a minor mistake would make some people so angry.
> What i see, is the lack of organization and fragile system design
> which allows a single person to make substantional damage to public
> resources, even by mistake.
> Let's not blame each other on who did or what, lets better think
> about, how to make better system be more protected from such mistakes
> in future and yet still easy to manage in collaborative environment.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>

>
>
>
> El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribi?:
>
> > Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them
> > such.
>
> I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap.
> But if you read this list , you could see some think this way.
> Remember they said Nebraska is crap.

>
>
> El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
>> Someone erased the contents of
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>>
>> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
>> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.
>
> My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT free.

> Repeat, may be I send my mail in the wrong place, but I'm not  
> insultating you nor neither other. The people who know me would  
> testify I'm a respectful person.
>
>
> 2008/4/24 stephane ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> You know guys.
> I really hate to by insulted like that.
> When you will have done 5% of what I'm doing for Smalltalk I will  
> let you freely insult me.
>
> Stef
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Germán Arduino wrote:
>
> Bad things are happening, as I was reading on IRC. Some people  
> believe to be the owner of  Squeak?.
>
> I think the Board must take action and put bridles on the access to  
> the repositories of official versions. A concrete record of all the  
> people with access should be completed (or another control method),  
> but I think that is an urgence.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> 2008/4/24 Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>:
> On 24.04.2008, at 11:07, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>
> El 4/23/08 9:58 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
> Someone erased the contents of
> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>
> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>
> -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
> The Board should show some action.
> It's unthinkable some guy, whatever great is his name , take community
> resources for his own ego satisfaction.
>
> My work is free for Squeak and only for Squeak, any other use is NOT  
> free.
>
>
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by  
> stupidity."
>
> Stef, Alexandre, what's up with this?
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>> Someone erased the contents of
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/updates/updates.list
>>
>> and replaced it with something Sapphire-related. That is just
>> wrong. The update stream needs to be preserved.
>
> It was pointed out to me that the phrase "That is just wrong"
> could be taken in an accusatory tone. I'm sorry for saying that;
> I should have written this email a little less hastily. Sorry
> for any confusion.
>
> --
> Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
>
>

>
>
>
> El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
>> Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them
>> such.
>
> I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap.
> But if you read this list , you could see some think this way.
> Remember they said Nebraska is crap.
> Still my students open wide his eyes showing how in 3.10 people could
> connect two others computers and send simple morphs...
>
>> Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of
>> bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this.
>> Please stop
>
> Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and  
> I can't
> do nothing to change.
>
>
>
>
>

> Edgar
>
>  We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun.
>  Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to
> students I would like to be proud of it
>  and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that compiler
> is dependent of the UI
>  then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk is
> shit....So I never lie to students and tell them
>  Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine and
> that we are working on it. Smart guys can then
>  choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit.
>  Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time
> maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see
>  halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies introduced by
> etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one
>  (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince anybody
> that I supported it)
>  but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We maintained
> 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible.
>  We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that polluted
> all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience
>  is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or we
> should drop it.
>  Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will
> produce - just read our books :)
>  But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no
> nebraska, no experiences will be maintained.
>  It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back etoy
> into it but this is not our concerns.
>  The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and make
> sure that people will be able to develop and invent their
>  future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
>
>  We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man should be
> able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system
>  with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.
>
>  Stef
>
>
>
>  On Apr 24, 2008, at 11:50 PM, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > El 4/24/08 12:08 PM, "Matthew Fulmer" <[hidden email]> escribió:
> >
> >
> > > Contributions are valuable. They are not crap. Do not call them
> > > such.
> > >
> >
> > I don't think any in Squeak or any honest contribution is crap.
> > But if you read this list , you could see some think this way.
> > Remember they said Nebraska is crap.
> > Still my students open wide his eyes showing how in 3.10 people could
> > connect two others computers and send simple morphs...
> >
> >
> > > Nobody here has this attitude. Please stop accusing people of
> > > bad motives. You are hurting people by saying things like this.
> > > Please stop
> > >
> >
> > Well , I finish this. No point as bad players continue his ways and I
> can't
> > do nothing to change.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

> Edgar
>
> We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun.
> Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to
> students I would like to be proud of it
> and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that
> compiler is dependent of the UI
> then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk
> is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them
> Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine
> and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then
> choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit.
> Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time
> maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see
> halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies
> introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one
> (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince
> anybody that I supported it)
> but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We
> maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible.
> We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that
> polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience
> is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or
> we should drop it.
> Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will
> produce - just read our books :)
> But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no
> nebraska, no experiences will be maintained.
> It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back
> etoy into it but this is not our concerns.
> The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and
> make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their
> future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
>
> We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man
> should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system
> with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.