[squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

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[squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Igor Stasenko
Changed the topic, to make things even more clear.


On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
>  some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
>  In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
>  down from leading the website team and would like to find a replacement.
>  He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
>  leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is now
>  really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
>  immediate future at the very least.
>
>
>  Ken
>
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: [squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Brian Rice
Thank you, Igor; this mailing list feels like a firehose aimed at my  
mail client, and few people bother to set subjects properly.


On Mar 13, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> Changed the topic, to make things even more clear.
>
>
> On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
>> some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
>> In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
>> down from leading the website team and would like to find a  
>> replacement.
>> He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
>> leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is  
>> now
>> really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
>> immediate future at the very least.

If no one else volunteers, I certainly can spend at least a few days a  
month maintaining the site and trying to find better ways to present  
and organize the content.

--
http://BrianTRice.com


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Re: [squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Brad Fuller-4
>  On Mar 13, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>  > On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  >> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
>  >> some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
>  >> In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
>  >> down from leading the website team and would like to find a
>  >> replacement.
>  >> He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
>  >> leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is
>  >> now
>  >> really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
>  >> immediate future at the very least.
>
>  If no one else volunteers, I certainly can spend at least a few days a
>  month maintaining the site and trying to find better ways to present
>  and organize the content.

There are others in the web team (like me, for instance) that helps on
the site when they can. So, you have help there.

AFAIK, what the leader needs to do is:

1. maintain the email distribution list (which basically means looking
at all the bounced messages, deleting the spam and forwarding on
legitimate msgs) unless someone else is already doing this (I don't
know.)

2. Report to squeak-dev once a month about web issues

3. Be a catalyst for web Squeak web presence and the webteam.

I'd volunteer, but I can't make the commitment right now.

--
Brad Fuller
www.bradfuller.com

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Re: [squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Ken Causey-3
Hmm, I was a little confused when I first read this, this is Brian Rice
volunteering, not Igor Stasenko.

Ken

On Thu, 2008-03-13 at 17:10 -0700, Brad Fuller wrote:

> >  On Mar 13, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> >  > On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  >> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
> >  >> some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
> >  >> In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
> >  >> down from leading the website team and would like to find a
> >  >> replacement.
> >  >> He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
> >  >> leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is
> >  >> now
> >  >> really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
> >  >> immediate future at the very least.
> >
> >  If no one else volunteers, I certainly can spend at least a few days a
> >  month maintaining the site and trying to find better ways to present
> >  and organize the content.
>
> There are others in the web team (like me, for instance) that helps on
> the site when they can. So, you have help there.
>
> AFAIK, what the leader needs to do is:
>
> 1. maintain the email distribution list (which basically means looking
> at all the bounced messages, deleting the spam and forwarding on
> legitimate msgs) unless someone else is already doing this (I don't
> know.)
>
> 2. Report to squeak-dev once a month about web issues
>
> 3. Be a catalyst for web Squeak web presence and the webteam.
>
> I'd volunteer, but I can't make the commitment right now.
>



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Re: [squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Janko Mivšek
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
This is just a repost using better topic...

Hi Squeakers,

I'd like to announce that I'm seriously thinking about helping Squeak
community with stepping up as a WebTeam team leader.

Let me introduce myself a bit: I already have an experience building up
and maintaining content on Aida/Web site and I also got some experience
how to do promotion and how to do a Search Engine Optimizations (SEO).

That experience can help to improve a bit otherwise already very rich
Squeak website. Other possibility for improvement is to upgrade
technology behind website and here I can again contribute with
Aida/Scribo CMS, which is a base for Aida's website and is currently in
intense development, just adding blog support. That way a Squeak website
will also be a show point of most advanced technology Squeakers have.
Which is good in my opinion for Squeak and Smalltalk promotion in general.

To conclude, I can contribute with maintaining content on one side but
also to upgrade the website technology to Aida/Scribo CMS, so that a
website will be modern, with fresh and relevant content and with all
things such site needs to have those days.

Janko
Igor Stasenko wrote:

> Changed the topic, to make things even more clear.
>
>
> On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
>>  some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
>>  In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
>>  down from leading the website team and would like to find a replacement.
>>  He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
>>  leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is now
>>  really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
>>  immediate future at the very least.
>>
>>
>>  Ken
>>
>>
>

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

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[squeak-dev] +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Klaus D. Witzel
In reply to this post by Igor Stasenko
Gentlefolks,

it would not be the squeak-dev list if we wouldn't see an immediate start  
of the tools debate (i.e. Aida v.s. Seaside, what features are  
(not)supported, etc :) when the community is concerned about less work and  
more volunteers for the web team :)

But in fact we want something along these lines,

o a package which is maintained by dedicated people
o protection of investment/content with updates, upgrades
o support for WAI, WCAG, more W3 standards+initiatives
o "something" running on Squeak
o in-line editing
o drag&drop
o copy,cut,paste
o undo,redo
o SEO

this and more for creation and maintenance of the content on  
www.squeak.org by the web team. Therefore I think, we want something like  
this

-  
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/firma/team
-  
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/service/anleitung

I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their Squeak  
app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.

/Klaus

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:12:53 +0100, Igor Stasenko wrote:

> Changed the topic, to make things even more clear.
...
>


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Re: [squeak-dev] We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)

Brad Fuller-4
In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek
I think it would be important to continue using Squeak as the engine
of the website for the promotion of Squeak.  It could be moved to
Seaside, but we never did it - never had the time to undertake it.

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is just a repost using better topic...
>
>  Hi Squeakers,
>
>  I'd like to announce that I'm seriously thinking about helping Squeak
>  community with stepping up as a WebTeam team leader.
>
>  Let me introduce myself a bit: I already have an experience building up
>  and maintaining content on Aida/Web site and I also got some experience
>  how to do promotion and how to do a Search Engine Optimizations (SEO).
>
>  That experience can help to improve a bit otherwise already very rich
>  Squeak website. Other possibility for improvement is to upgrade
>  technology behind website and here I can again contribute with
>  Aida/Scribo CMS, which is a base for Aida's website and is currently in
>  intense development, just adding blog support. That way a Squeak website
>  will also be a show point of most advanced technology Squeakers have.
>  Which is good in my opinion for Squeak and Smalltalk promotion in general.
>
>  To conclude, I can contribute with maintaining content on one side but
>  also to upgrade the website technology to Aida/Scribo CMS, so that a
>  website will be modern, with fresh and relevant content and with all
>  things such site needs to have those days.
>
>  Janko
>
>
> Igor Stasenko wrote:
>  > Changed the topic, to make things even more clear.
>  >
>  >
>  > On 14/03/2008, Ken Causey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  >> While I'm sure Karl welcomes your thanks it seems like maybe you and
>  >>  some others have missed the point.  Karl is not fishing for comments.
>  >>  In the recent past he has repeatedly announced that he wishes to step
>  >>  down from leading the website team and would like to find a replacement.
>  >>  He has not gotten any replies.  He is now stating that he really is
>  >>  leaving with a specific deadline (the end of this month) and it is now
>  >>  really time for someone to step up and lead the website team for the
>  >>  immediate future at the very least.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  Ken
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>
>  --
>  Janko Mivšek
>  AIDA/Web
>  Smalltalk Web Application Server
>  http://www.aidaweb.si
>
>


--
Brad Fuller
www.bradfuller.com


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[squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Andreas.Raab
In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> -
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/firma/team 
>
> -
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/service/anleitung 
>
>
> I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their Squeak
> app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.

+1. Good looking, production quality, professional support, done in
Seaside - what's not to like? ;-)

Also (gazing in my chrystal ball here) I could well imagine trying to
raise some money for letting CMSBox' designer have a go at a "more
professional" presentation of the main Squeak site. What do other people
think?

Cheers,
   - Andreas

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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Brad Fuller-4
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Andreas Raab <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  > I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their Squeak
>  > app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.
>
>  +1. Good looking, production quality, professional support, done in
>  Seaside - what's not to like? ;-)
>
>  Also (gazing in my chrystal ball here) I could well imagine trying to
>  raise some money for letting CMSBox' designer have a go at a "more
>  professional" presentation of the main Squeak site. What do other people
>  think?

What do others think? I'll reiterate here since it might be lost in
other threads:
Tell me about content change, not the engine change. We can do
everything in Seaside (I agree.) But, what isn't being provided by the
current site that should be there.


--
Brad Fuller
www.bradfuller.com

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[squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Klaus D. Witzel
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:38:06 +0100, Brad Fuller wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>> Klaus wrote:
>>  > I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their  
>> Squeak
>>  > app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.
>>
>>  +1. Good looking, production quality, professional support, done in
>>  Seaside - what's not to like? ;-)
>>
>>  Also (gazing in my chrystal ball here) I could well imagine trying to
>>  raise some money for letting CMSBox' designer have a go at a "more
>>  professional" presentation of the main Squeak site. What do other  
>> people
>>  think?
>
> What do others think? I'll reiterate here since it might be lost in
> other threads:
> Tell me about content change, not the engine change. We can do
> everything in Seaside (I agree.) But, what isn't being provided by the
> current site that should be there.

[no offense]
- the press room is o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d
- the screenshots are o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d (UI enhancements?)
- new initiatives are m-i-s-s-i-n-g
  (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
  (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
- http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is w-a-y t-o-o l-a-r-g-e
- layout+design (esp. colors) could use some f-r-e-s-h ideas

These are no pressing issues, I always thought they will be addressed  
sooner or later; but you asked n-o-w.

>
>



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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

cedreek
>  >>  > I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their

>  >> Squeak
>  >>  > app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.
>  >>
>  >>  +1. Good looking, production quality, professional support, done in
>  >>  Seaside - what's not to like? ;-)
>  >>
>  >>  Also (gazing in my chrystal ball here) I could well imagine trying to
>  >>  raise some money for letting CMSBox' designer have a go at a "more
>  >>  professional" presentation of the main Squeak site. What do other
>  >> people
>  >>  think?
That would be nice too... but will the code be available ?
I think open code is necessary, no ?


> [no offense]
>  - the press room is o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d
>  - the screenshots are o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d (UI enhancements?)
>  - new initiatives are m-i-s-s-i-n-g
>   (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
>   (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
>  - http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is w-a-y t-o-o l-a-r-g-e
>  - layout+design (esp. colors) could use some f-r-e-s-h ideas
>
>  These are no pressing issues, I always thought they will be addressed
>  sooner or later; but you asked n-o-w.
>
Still a bit the same problem...  content (squeak universe is huge) has
to be better organized. This could be done with the existing site but
using aida or seaside (CMSbox) will make the transition easier are I'm
guessisng not a lot of people make smallwiki evolve now.
So time to change and bringing new tools will bring new ideas I think.

To me the question is you'd like a revolutionary web site (à la
CMSBox) or a classic XHTML with a good design is enough ?

>o a package which is maintained by dedicated people
>o protection of investment/content with updates, upgrades
>o support for WAI, WCAG, more W3 standards+initiatives
>o "something" running on Squeak
>o in-line editing
>o drag&drop
>o copy,cut,paste
>o undo,redo
>o SEO

Janko, could you provide that ? maybe more ?


Cheers

Cédrick

ps: To me Janko has shown he can keep up things he has in charge even
if he has not a lot of people behind (just an impression).


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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Karl-19
In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
>
> [no offense]
> - the press room is o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d
+1
> - the screenshots are o-u-t-d-a-t-e-d (UI enhancements?)
+1
> - new initiatives are m-i-s-s-i-n-g
+1
>  (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
>  (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
> - http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is w-a-y t-o-o l-a-r-g-e
+1
> - layout+design (esp. colors) could use some f-r-e-s-h ideas
+1
>
> These are no pressing issues, I always thought they will be addressed
> sooner or later; but you asked n-o-w.

One pressing issue is that the webteam mailing list is exposed to
webbots so the moderation job can be quite overwhelming. One solution is
to use a captcha but there is no captcha for Smallwiki, (there is one
for Smallwiki2) and there are so few users of Smallwiki and even fewer
developers.

I suggest using a web framework that has backing from a community and
have many developers so we don't have to migrate once the only developer
folds.

Karl


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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

Lukas Renggli
> One pressing issue is that the webteam mailing list is exposed to
>  webbots so the moderation job can be quite overwhelming. One solution is
>  to use a captcha but there is no captcha for Smallwiki, (there is one
>  for Smallwiki2) and there are so few users of Smallwiki and even fewer
>  developers.

It is not that the developers have disappeared. It is not that nobody
works on SmallWiki anymore. And it is not that there is no community
around SmallWiki.

SmallWiki is a product released in 2003. Its development continued
since then. It is based on Seaside now and it was renamed to Pier. It
has an active developer community. There are more than 200 people
registered on the mailing list. Many people build (and have built) web
sites using Pier. There are dozens of sophisticated plugins available.

Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: +1 for the Web tool debate [was: We need new Web Team leader (Was: I'm stepping down as WebTeam Leader Mars 31)]

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
Would be excellent!
May be we could ask samuel morello that designed the seaside logo.

Stef


> Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
>> - http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/firma/team 
>>  - http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cmsbox.com/service/anleitung 
>>  I'd negotiate with the CMSBox people for getting a copy of their  
>> Squeak app and a migration plan, in service for the Squeak community.
>
> +1. Good looking, production quality, professional support, done in  
> Seaside - what's not to like? ;-)
>
> Also (gazing in my chrystal ball here) I could well imagine trying  
> to raise some money for letting CMSBox' designer have a go at a  
> "more professional" presentation of the main Squeak site. What do  
> other people think?
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>
>


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[squeak-dev] re: we need a new web team leader

ccrraaiigg
In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel

Hi--

      I agree with Brad and others that what most needs doing on the web
team is content maintenance. Perhaps the tools used to compose and
deploy that content could decrease the effort required, but I haven't
seen anyone make that case successfully yet.

      Klaus writes:

 > - the press room is outdated
 > - the screenshots are outdated (UI enhancements?)
 > - new initiatives are missing
 >  (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
 >  (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
 > - http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is way too large

      I think all of these items would benefit most from attentive
people who can incorporate new information in a timely way, the
technology they use is of far lesser importance.


      thanks,

-C

p.s.

      I think the information in "Weekly Squeak" sidebar on the right
side of the top page is usually very good. I'd just replace the "Press
Room" link on the left with a link to news.squeak.org (probably called
"News").



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Re: [squeak-dev] re: we need a new web team leader

Karl-19
Craig Latta wrote:

>
> Hi--
>
>      I agree with Brad and others that what most needs doing on the
> web team is content maintenance. Perhaps the tools used to compose and
> deploy that content could decrease the effort required, but I haven't
> seen anyone make that case successfully yet.
>
>      Klaus writes:
>
> > - the press room is outdated
> > - the screenshots are outdated (UI enhancements?)
> > - new initiatives are missing
> >  (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
> >  (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
> > - http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is way too large
>
>      I think all of these items would benefit most from attentive
> people who can incorporate new information in a timely way, the
> technology they use is of far lesser importance.
FWIW here is a couple of issues with the Smallwiki that run the site:
The way Smallwiki handles pictures make it quite hard to have smaller
screenshots you can click to see a bigger one. It involves some
trickeries with HTML etc to make happen.

Special chars are parsed and inlined when you edit text so non ASCII
chars get mangled.

Karl

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Re: [squeak-dev] re: we need a new web team leader

Brad Fuller-4
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  Hi--
>
>       I agree with Brad and others that what most needs doing on the web
>  team is content maintenance. Perhaps the tools used to compose and
>  deploy that content could decrease the effort required, but I haven't
>  seen anyone make that case successfully yet.
>
>       Klaus writes:
>
>   > - the press room is outdated
>   > - the screenshots are outdated (UI enhancements?)
>   > - new initiatives are missing
>   >  (example http://www.google.com/search?q=hydra+site:www.squeak.org)
>   >  (http://www.google.com/search?q=summer+of+code+site:www.squeak.org)
>   > - http://www.squeak.org/Download/ is way too large
>
>       I think all of these items would benefit most from attentive
>  people who can incorporate new information in a timely way, the
>  technology they use is of far lesser importance.

except I believe it's embarrassing not to use the language we so
fervently and religiously  promote. If we didn't have a usable
Smalltalk web engine, then I would understand. But, Seaside is
available and it's great.  And if it's deficient in some way, we have
the resources to change/add/delete/enhance in the community.

brad