[squeak-dev] facelifting the trunk?

> Ronald Spengler wrote:
>>
>> Let's make it look better than it does now, and then turn toward
>> discussing a skinnable architecture.
>>
>> Andreas: does Tweak lend itself to skinning in less ones and zeroes
>> than Polymorph does?
>
> No. Tweak actually utterly fails at that. I have a new UI framework that I'm
> working on occasionally and which I actually used to implemented Facelift
> first - the name Botox only occurred to me when I then started to poke in
> all of these dark corners of Morphic to get it to look the way I wanted ;-)
>
> Polymorph is actually not a bad choice for skinning as far as a Morphic-like
> environment goes but it needs work to detach the basic skinning
> infrastructure from the actual looks and extra widgets. There are simply too
> many dependencies right now.
>
> If anyone wants to move this forward, here is how I would do it:
> * Load Polymorph into a trunk image.
> * Remove *all* UIThemes outside of the most basic standard Squeak one
> * Remove all the unused classes
> * Minimize the dependencies to the "extra" widgets that Polymorph has but
> where simper stand-ins do just fine
> * Repackage the result and push it into Morphic
>
> I suspect (but that's a guess) that the end result is less than a dozen
> additional classes and fewer than a hundred extra methods which I would find
> perfectly acceptable for the skinning infrastructure. On top of which
> additional themes could be loaded. But it's real work that needs real time
> to be invested in it.
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>
>
>
>

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Ronald Spengler
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is Polymorph available to us under an MIT License?
>
> It is: http://www.squeaksource.com/UIEnhancements/
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
>
> "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them
> popular by not having them." James Iry
>
>

> To be clear: the default look is showing it's age. And I don't think
> the main image needs more than one theme. But I think themability is
> worth having in a base image.
>
> Also: +1 to whoever thinks Squeak should have a distinct default look
> and feel. We shouldn't try to hide the fact that this is *different*,
> as that's part of the appeal.
>
> On Thursday, September 17, 2009, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
>>
>> On 17.09.2009, at 13:45, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>
>> (presuming some coloring scheme for different tools is still in  
>> effect - I don't want *everything* to be grey)
>>
>> +1
>>
>> - Bert -
>
> --
> Ron

> On 18.09.2009, at 03:49, Ronald Spengler wrote:
>
>> To be clear: the default look is showing it's age. And I don't think
>> the main image needs more than one theme. But I think themability is
>> worth having in a base image.
>>
>> Also: +1 to whoever thinks Squeak should have a distinct default look
>> and feel. We shouldn't try to hide the fact that this is *different*,
>> as that's part of the appeal.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 17, 2009, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17.09.2009, at 13:45, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>>
>>> (presuming some coloring scheme for different tools is still in effect -
>>> I don't want *everything* to be grey)
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>
>> --
>> Ron
>
>
> Themability is good, and pick a unique thing by default, yes.
>
> I was agreeing with Göran, that distinguishing tools by their color has been
> *the* unique thing in Squeak for ever, and I like it that way. Yes it should
> be toned way down to not hurt the eyes, subtle hints are enough, and it
> should be simple to turn off etc. pp., but leaving hints of color in the
> default look is a Good Thing.
>
> I think a way to compromise is to have lists and text panes in a neutral
> color (e.g. plain white) and only apply the color on the window frame.
>
> Btw, themes and per-tool colors are not at odds. E.g., 10 years ago I
> started on a theme engine named "Fur" that could adopt each Window's colors,
> even though button images and scrollbar look etc. came from bitmaps:
>
> ================
> February 2000: I started working on "Fur for Squeak" in Dec 1999, but
> couldn't put much time into it lately. It's based on recolorable scaleable
> images - look for EdgeImageMorph at the BFAV2 Archive. I have scrollbars and
> buttons working - see this screen shot [1]. I wanted Fur to not require
> theme specific code in the image but the furs should be distributed in a
> single directory containing all images and a spec file. I'll just file out
> my stuff and put it in this directory for anyone to use - especially for
> Steve who might want to rip parts of my code. Although I find "Fur" is a
> much more appropriate name for SqueakSkins ;-) –Bert Freudenberg
> [1]
> http://web.archive.org/web/20060127201337/wwwisg.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~bert/squeak/fur/fur_prealpha.gif
> ================
>
> Now the actual look in there was not nice even by standards of its own time,
> but then, it was just a tech demo ;) I'm just saying that support for
> coloring can be had even with themes.
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>
>

>
> On 18.09.2009, at 05:08, Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>> On 17.09.2009, at 13:45, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>>> (presuming some coloring scheme for different tools is still in  
>>>> effect - I don't want *everything* to be grey)
>>> +1
>>
>> Unfortunately, the Newspeak facelift is obviously designed as a  
>> plainly colored theme with the only color sprinkled in carefully by  
>> the window buttons and the "dirty marker". There is no good way to  
>> mix and match colors so if you don't like the fact that it's gray  
>> then don't use it.
>>
>> FWIW, I'm attaching what I consider the "final" version of Botox  
>> (meaning I won't spend any more time on it). No screenshots because  
>> I really want people to try it in action instead of judging from a  
>> single screenshot. Hint: It's worth trying it as it looks  
>> significantly different from the previous version for a particular  
>> reason which I find critical to really judging the look.
>>
>> I recommend loading it into a trunk image, firing up a browser,  
>> looking at some implementors and then opening the test runner. This  
>> should give you a pretty good feel for what it's like.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Andreas
>> <Botox.2.cs.gz>
>
>
> I like it! Here's a version that preserves colored window frames.
>
> - Bert -
>
> <Botox.3.cs.gz>

>
> On 18.09.2009, at 16:21, Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz wrote:
>
>> Looks good.
>>
>> Wich methods saves the "close, minimize", icons? I will try to take  
>> from newspeak.
>
>
> "Take"? We did say that the Cadence license does not allow us to do  
> that.
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>

> Looks good.
>
> Wich methods saves the "close, minimize", icons? I will try to take  
> from newspeak.
>
> Cheers.
>
> El 18/09/2009, a las 15:07, Bert Freudenberg escribió:
>
>>
>> On 18.09.2009, at 05:08, Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>>> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>>> On 17.09.2009, at 13:45, Göran Krampe wrote:
>>>>> (presuming some coloring scheme for different tools is still in  
>>>>> effect - I don't want *everything* to be grey)
>>>> +1
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the Newspeak facelift is obviously designed as a  
>>> plainly colored theme with the only color sprinkled in carefully  
>>> by the window buttons and the "dirty marker". There is no good way  
>>> to mix and match colors so if you don't like the fact that it's  
>>> gray then don't use it.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I'm attaching what I consider the "final" version of Botox  
>>> (meaning I won't spend any more time on it). No screenshots  
>>> because I really want people to try it in action instead of  
>>> judging from a single screenshot. Hint: It's worth trying it as it  
>>> looks significantly different from the previous version for a  
>>> particular reason which I find critical to really judging the look.
>>>
>>> I recommend loading it into a trunk image, firing up a browser,  
>>> looking at some implementors and then opening the test runner.  
>>> This should give you a pretty good feel for what it's like.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> - Andreas
>>> <Botox.2.cs.gz>
>>
>>
>> I like it! Here's a version that preserves colored window frames.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>> <Botox.3.cs.gz>
>
> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz
> Blog: http://www.lordzealon.com
> Twitter & Skype & GoogleTalk accounts: glpunzi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>