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On 2012-12-05 1:25 PM, H. Hirzel wrote:
> Hi Chris > > Thank you for taking the time to answer. > > On 12/5/12, Chris Cunnington <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On 2012-12-04 1:06 AM, H. Hirzel wrote: >>> Hello Chris and Darius >>> >>> with the part Darius suggested added 'Take Part In The Innovation' >>> (TPITI) there is now quite some redundancy with the menu at the left. >>> e.g >>> >>> Project Links (Menu) ==> 'Discover Squeak's projects' (TPITI) >>> Documentation (Menu) ==> 'Explore the documentation' (TPITI) >>> Developer Links (Menu) ==> 'Find tools via the developer links.' >>> (TPITI) >>> >>> Web users normally look at the menu and need to to be told so. >>> >>> Maybe the TPITI info and the menu can be combined resulting in a more >>> attractive wording of the menu entries (verb plus object)? >>> >>> This would as well shift up the six boxes below which makes it more >>> attractive at first glance as everything fits on a regular screen? >>> >>> --Hannes >>> >> You'd like to remove the TPITI and style the menu as Smalltalk code. I'm >> not sure either of those is a good idea. > OK, fine. No objection. > > Casey wanted more color and I'm >> not sure that's a good idea either. I don't think the webpage should be >> the attraction. A little dull is probably better. > Eeh? > >> I figure a site has to work on two levels: immediate impression; and, >> subsequent usefulness. People being people, they like a bit of noise and >> chaos in the immediate impression. > Really? > Where is the noise? > > > The current squeak.org gives a great >> first impression, because its so busy and colorful. It's utility isn't >> great. > The redundancy of the TPITI, which you see as a defect, I see as >> a contributing to immediate impression. The items in the TPITI overlap >> with the menu and emphasize the menu. > > This is my main point. What people see is the TPITI section which is > redundant with a menu which people expect in any case visiting a web > site for an IDE/computer language. The standard things. And the > non-scrollable area at the top isn't used properly either. So the > first impression is to see half-finished redundant stuff and and a > nearly empty horizontal menu. > > The important news are obstructed and look like an after-thought. > > >> I also think that people are attracted by what they can only partially >> see. To give you an example from cinema, a director will often put >> something in the way of an object the audience wants to see to increase >> their desire to see it. An example from Lord Of The Rings - The Return >> Of The King: after much preamble about the witch king of Angmar riding a >> dragon, our first view is obscured by a castle spire. Spielberg does it >> all the time. Obscure to increase curiosity. > This happens with the 6 intro boxes and the 'more' buttons. Very neat. > >> My point is that because you can only see half of the six areas at the >> bottom of the screen, your curiosity is nettled, and you scroll down to >> see the rest of the page. Did you not do exactly that, Hannes? > Sure, because I was forced to. Not particularly great. > > Isn't >> that what you are protesting against being forced to do? > Yes > > You would like >> to see the whole page without having to scroll. > Yes. > > I would like to see this >> "defect" as prompting people to interact with the site. > Interaction is good and great but not this type of cheap interaction. > > We actually have 6 'more' buttons. > > another proposal > > Why can-t we move TPITI into one of the six boxes and have a relative > newcomer write a short article how to get into Squeak....? > > --Hannes > >> Chris >> >> of the six boxes and we'll see how it looks. Chris |
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I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great and I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point (especially beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online mailing lists at forum.world.st
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On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great and > I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point (especially > beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online > mailing lists at forum.world.st planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. (And and and and....) frank |
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Maybe, planet.squeak.org is similar to planet.smalltalk.org but when I tried integrating these I found that they are a pita because their look-n-feel doesn't match. What did you mean with the and and and and ... ? |
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On 6 December 2012 12:37, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Frank Shearar-3 wrote >> planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. >> (And and and and....) > > Maybe, planet.squeak.org is similar to planet.smalltalk.org but when I tried > integrating these I found that they are a pita because their look-n-feel > doesn't match. You could just read the feeds directly and render them both in a uniform manner, couldn't you? But anyway, I'd just be happy with a hint that it's there at all. > What did you mean with the and and and and ... ? The danger of overwhelming Chris Cunnington with suggestions, all of which simply MUST be on the front page, at the top. In bold. Maybe even blinking. frank |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 2012-12-06 6:47 AM, Frank Shearar wrote:
> On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great and >> I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point (especially >> beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online >> mailing lists at forum.world.st > planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. > (And and and and....) > > frank > linked from the homepage of world.st, so I don't think they are two links, but one. planet.smalltalk.org has all the things planet.squeak.org does (I think) and there is already a link for that in the Smalltalk Blogs section. Neither world.st nor planet.*.st are core Squeak things, and so they don't go on the homepage. The world.st is a good suggestion, though. Thank you for it. Chris |
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On 6 December 2012 13:02, Chris Cunnington
<[hidden email]> wrote: > On 2012-12-06 6:47 AM, Frank Shearar wrote: >> >> On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great >>> and >>> I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point >>> (especially >>> beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online >>> mailing lists at forum.world.st >> >> planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. >> (And and and and....) >> >> frank >> > I'll add world.st in the Smalltalk Blogs section. forum.world.st is linked > from the homepage of world.st, so I don't think they are two links, but one. > > planet.smalltalk.org has all the things planet.squeak.org does (I think) and > there is already a link for that in the Smalltalk Blogs section. Neither > world.st nor planet.*.st are core Squeak things, and so they don't go on the > homepage. My work blog posts (labelled "LShift Ltd.") are in planet.squeak but not planet.smalltalk, but I'd accept the answer "well get it added to that planet then". There is a LOT of overlap between the two, in other words, but neither is a superset of the other. frank > The world.st is a good suggestion, though. Thank you for it. > > Chris > |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
I never figured out how to just get the feeds directly and render them myself but maybe that was just me.
hahaha and no, it was never my intention that it "must" be there in bold and blinking :) |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 2012-12-06 8:53 AM, Frank Shearar wrote:
> On 6 December 2012 13:02, Chris Cunnington > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On 2012-12-06 6:47 AM, Frank Shearar wrote: >>> On 6 December 2012 11:43, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> I just noticed the discussion about a revamped Squeak.org which is great >>>> and >>>> I like the idea of using Bootstrap! Anyhow make sure to point >>>> (especially >>>> beginners) to the World of Smalltalk (world.st) and the aggregated online >>>> mailing lists at forum.world.st >>> planet.squeak.org probably needs a nice place on the front page too. >>> (And and and and....) >>> >>> frank >>> >> I'll add world.st in the Smalltalk Blogs section. forum.world.st is linked >> from the homepage of world.st, so I don't think they are two links, but one. >> >> planet.smalltalk.org has all the things planet.squeak.org does (I think) and >> there is already a link for that in the Smalltalk Blogs section. Neither >> world.st nor planet.*.st are core Squeak things, and so they don't go on the >> homepage. > My work blog posts (labelled "LShift Ltd.") are in planet.squeak but > not planet.smalltalk, but I'd accept the answer "well get it added to > that planet then". Chris > There is a LOT of overlap between the two, in other words, but neither > is a superset of the other. > > frank > >> The world.st is a good suggestion, though. Thank you for it. >> >> Chris >> |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 06-12-2012, at 4:54 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > Maybe > even blinking. No - no blinking. The Doctor warned us all what would happen if we blink; "Your life could depend on this. Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead" tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Not enough sense to come in out of the rain. |
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In reply to this post by Chris Cunnington
I would suggest to put world.st under the Documentation rather than Smalltalk Blogs because it doesn't publish anything. Sure. My 2 cents: the younger generation may not make the connection that "Mailing Lists" are where you can go and find the answer to questions one may have as they are used to discuss in online "Forums" rather than via email. ps. there are sub-domains for the Smalltalk Distributions so you could point to squeak.forum.world.st (or gemstone.forum.world.st or cincom.forum.world.st or ...) to get straight to the Squeak specific forums. |
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On 07-12-2012, at 2:37 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: > My 2 cents: the younger generation may not make the connection that "Mailing > Lists" are where you can go and find the answer to questions one may have as > they are used to discuss in online "Forums" rather than via email. > > ps. there are sub-domains for the Smalltalk Distributions so you could point > to squeak.forum.world.st (or gemstone.forum.world.st or > cincom.forum.world.st or ...) to get straight to the Squeak specific forums. Even though I don't much like web forum versions of mailing lists, this is a good point. Pointing to squeak.forum.world.st would be a smart move. Perhaps go so far as to rename the 'mailing lists' item as 'Forums' and make a very simple page that explains the possibility of using either format and then all the options. If possible make sure that *all* the assorted mailing lists are represented on the forum; diversity is a good thing but not so much if it causes insularity. How about (making big assumptions about the implementability of this) a Forums page with the squeak.forum.world.st page embedded under an explanation something like:- We run a variety of forums about Squeak, ranging from guidance for beginners to the workings of VM builders and pretty much everything between. All of them are also available as subscribable mailing lists; if you prefer that format go to LINK to subscribe. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- One of the early failures of electroshock therapy. |
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