support of various line ends in trunk

> Hi Stephan,
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> Juan wrote:
>>>
>>> Showing all in the same way is misleading. Different Strings should look
>>> different in the editor!
>>
>> Why should they? No system (old mac, unix, dos) has the correct
>> ASCII behaviour and no user expects them to. Squeak is multi-platform
>> and has its own internal conventions.
>
> The purpose of an editor is to show the user the characters that comprise
> the String being edited, and allow him to add / remove characters at will.
> This is so obvious that I feel silly saying it. Why would some characters be
> silently messed by the system? I see no reason. It is like the horrible
> "ASCII mode" in FTP, that breaks every file it downloads.
>
>> Conversion should always default
>> towards the internal conventions, with the possibility to override that
>> behaviour. Default write-out should be to platform standard, eliminating
>> multi-convention line ends. If the user wants something different, she
>> knows enough to override the defaults.
>
> Squeak is not an application. Squeak is an object environment. Squeak
> editors don't edit files. They edit Strings. The behavior of the editors and
> that of the code used to read the strings from files or to store them back
> to files are completely unrelated issues. There could be no files at all. Or
> the files could be in a web server or whatever. They could be dynamically
> created by some other application. They could be part of an object you're
> inspecting. Assuming there is a well known "platform standard" to follow is
> wrong. May be in an application... Then the programmer doing that
> application might do whatever conversion fit his needs. But the base system
> should do none by default.
>

> 2009/11/17 Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>:
>  
>> Hi Stephan,
>>
>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>    
>>> Juan wrote:
>>>      
>>>> Showing all in the same way is misleading. Different Strings should look
>>>> different in the editor!
>>>>        
>>> Why should they? No system (old mac, unix, dos) has the correct
>>> ASCII behaviour and no user expects them to. Squeak is multi-platform
>>> and has its own internal conventions.
>>>      
>> The purpose of an editor is to show the user the characters that comprise
>> the String being edited, and allow him to add / remove characters at will.
>> This is so obvious that I feel silly saying it. Why would some characters be
>> silently messed by the system? I see no reason. It is like the horrible
>> "ASCII mode" in FTP, that breaks every file it downloads.
>>
>>    
>>> Conversion should always default
>>> towards the internal conventions, with the possibility to override that
>>> behaviour. Default write-out should be to platform standard, eliminating
>>> multi-convention line ends. If the user wants something different, she
>>> knows enough to override the defaults.
>>>      
>> Squeak is not an application. Squeak is an object environment. Squeak
>> editors don't edit files. They edit Strings. The behavior of the editors and
>> that of the code used to read the strings from files or to store them back
>> to files are completely unrelated issues. There could be no files at all. Or
>> the files could be in a web server or whatever. They could be dynamically
>> created by some other application. They could be part of an object you're
>> inspecting. Assuming there is a well known "platform standard" to follow is
>> wrong. May be in an application... Then the programmer doing that
>> application might do whatever conversion fit his needs. But the base system
>> should do none by default.
>>
>>    
> and it doesn't.
>
> You seem mixing the roles of:
>   - text reader/writer/converter
>   - text editor
>
> Role 1:
>  - different system utils, for convenience, providing a text
> reader/writer(s) with default or auto-detect or platform-specific line
> ending format(s).
>  

> Hi Igor,
>
> Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>> 2009/11/17 Juan Vuletich <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Stephan,
>>>
>>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Showing all in the same way is misleading. Different Strings should
>>>>> look
>>>>> different in the editor!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why should they? No system (old mac, unix, dos) has the correct
>>>> ASCII behaviour and no user expects them to. Squeak is multi-platform
>>>> and has its own internal conventions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The purpose of an editor is to show the user the characters that comprise
>>> the String being edited, and allow him to add / remove characters at
>>> will.
>>> This is so obvious that I feel silly saying it. Why would some characters
>>> be
>>> silently messed by the system? I see no reason. It is like the horrible
>>> "ASCII mode" in FTP, that breaks every file it downloads.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Conversion should always default
>>>> towards the internal conventions, with the possibility to override that
>>>> behaviour. Default write-out should be to platform standard, eliminating
>>>> multi-convention line ends. If the user wants something different, she
>>>> knows enough to override the defaults.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Squeak is not an application. Squeak is an object environment. Squeak
>>> editors don't edit files. They edit Strings. The behavior of the editors
>>> and
>>> that of the code used to read the strings from files or to store them
>>> back
>>> to files are completely unrelated issues. There could be no files at all.
>>> Or
>>> the files could be in a web server or whatever. They could be dynamically
>>> created by some other application. They could be part of an object you're
>>> inspecting. Assuming there is a well known "platform standard" to follow
>>> is
>>> wrong. May be in an application... Then the programmer doing that
>>> application might do whatever conversion fit his needs. But the base
>>> system
>>> should do none by default.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> and it doesn't.
>>
>> You seem mixing the roles of:
>>  - text reader/writer/converter
>>  - text editor
>>
>> Role 1:
>>  - different system utils, for convenience, providing a text
>> reader/writer(s) with default or auto-detect or platform-specific line
>> ending format(s).
>>
>
> Some application might need this. The base system doesn't.
>
>> Role 2:
>>  - a text editor expects a string which having only cr as a line
>> ending markers in input string/stream. PERIOD.
>>
>
> That is an error. There is no reason for that. And you saying "PERIOD"
> doesn't change that.
>
>>  - text editor, if requested could convert an edited text from its
>> internal representation back into string with cr's, ready to use
>> by/for any other means outside of it. PERIOD.
>>
>
> Well, you can add commands for the user to do any conversion. That's not a
> problem.
>
>>  - basically, text editor should not mess with ANY control characters
>> beyond its internal representation/needs. PERIOD.
>>
>
> It doesn't have any internal representation needs. That's my whole point. It
> can handle all 3 line endings without any problem at all, as it does in
> Cuis.
>