text chat transcript from last week's croquet developer meeting

Andreas extracted the text chat log from last friday's
croquet developer's meeting in Qwaq forums (see below).

Going forward we agreed to keep minutes in the text chat logs
so that the meetings have minutes.

An interesting observation: I noticed in the last two meetings
we tend to start out in text chat-only mode, then move to voice
chat once the meeting is officially running - but there are effectively
two separate conversation (one in voice, one in in text) with some
cross talk for the duration of the meeting. So this transcript gets
half of the conversation, and next time we'll try to write meeting
minutes into the text chat as we go along

---------

[2007-09-07 11:03:12] Forum Host: Mark has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:29:51] Forum Host: AntoninoGalante has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:30:11] AntoninoGalante: hi mark
[2007-09-07 11:30:19] Mark: hi Antonio
[2007-09-07 11:30:45] AntoninoGalante: ty very much indeed for your  
fast reply
[2007-09-07 11:31:00] Forum Host: John Dougan has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:31:02] Mark: you caught meat a good time
[2007-09-07 11:31:45] Forum Host: JustinGibbs has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:32:01] Mark: Hi John
[2007-09-07 11:32:04] Forum Host: DaveFaught has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:32:09] John Dougan: hey there!
[2007-09-07 11:32:50] Mark: I'm IMing peter moore - who ought to show  
up shortly
[2007-09-07 11:33:00] Mark: Liz Wendland can't make it
[2007-09-07 11:33:47] Mark: David Smith is on his way
[2007-09-07 11:34:28] John Dougan: The cats are gradually being  
herded into the corral. :)
[2007-09-07 11:35:03] Mark: peter is downloading the new version of  
qwaq forums
[2007-09-07 11:35:25] Mark: its interesting how we gravitate to text  
chat before the meeting proper
[2007-09-07 11:35:46] Forum Host: The Dude has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:35:52] Mark: is text less formal than voice?
[2007-09-07 11:36:01] John Dougan: I like text chat....it's  
searchable and loggable..,..or at least it is in a good implementation.
[2007-09-07 11:36:03] Mark: hi David
[2007-09-07 11:36:11] The Dude: Hi there
[2007-09-07 11:36:22] Mark: we are going old-school text right now
[2007-09-07 11:36:36] DaveFaught: i was wondering about that
[2007-09-07 11:36:37] The Dude: Why? Cat got your tongue?
[2007-09-07 11:36:51] Mark: I AM a cat - the first furry in qwaq forums
[2007-09-07 11:37:25] John Dougan: <big grin>Explains your success at  
cat herding...
[2007-09-07 11:37:57] The Dude: OK. Josh says he will be joining if  
he isn't here already. Andreas just dropped Howard at the airport.
[2007-09-07 11:38:14] Mark: peter moore is still thrashing a bit  
getting himself set up
[2007-09-07 11:38:26] Forum Host: Peter has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:38:31] The Dude: Mark, are you missing a mic?
[2007-09-07 11:38:51] Peter: not thrashing exactly
[2007-09-07 11:39:03] Forum Host: Josh has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:41:36] Forum Host: AntoninoGalante has left
[2007-09-07 11:42:18] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:43:03] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:43:48] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:44:02] DaveFaught: you want to have control over it
[2007-09-07 11:44:09] Forum Host: The Dude has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:44:10] Forum Host: The Dude has left
[2007-09-07 11:44:27] DaveFaught: it would actually be nice to get a  
lower rez version
[2007-09-07 11:44:33] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:45:18] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:46:03] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:46:48] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:47:05] Peter: the dude abides
[2007-09-07 11:47:13] DaveFaught: i always lag so i don't move around
[2007-09-07 11:47:33] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:48:18] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:49:03] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:49:48] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 11:50:58] Josh: David, did you just now hear me ask/
complain about lag?
[2007-09-07 11:51:42] Josh: chat chat
[2007-09-07 11:51:43] Josh: chat chat
[2007-09-07 11:53:55] Josh: ignore my test chats...
[2007-09-07 11:54:32] Josh: test1
[2007-09-07 11:55:05] DaveFaught: so local scripting wouldbe easier  
than island classes?
[2007-09-07 11:55:22] DaveFaught: easier to implement
[2007-09-07 11:57:51] Mark: but you have to have identical numeric  
results cross platform
[2007-09-07 11:58:40] DaveFaught: I wonder how much that might happen  
in GPU coding?
[2007-09-07 11:58:59] Forum Host: WilfPinfold has arrived
[2007-09-07 11:59:59] DaveFaught: i'm thinking of GPU computing, not  
rendering
[2007-09-07 12:01:24] Mark: so we have to have source to compile the  
scripting langfuage from + the libraries
[2007-09-07 12:01:29] Josh: Same thing.  GPU physics, mesh  
generation, whatever... the results can't be shoved into an island  
(except via future messages).
[2007-09-07 12:01:40] John Dougan: That doesn't sound oo bad.
[2007-09-07 12:02:43] John Dougan: As an experiment it would be  
intertesting to make the "Prolog in squeak" implementaton as a  
scripting language.
[2007-09-07 12:03:02] DaveFaught: what about writing
an interpreter in squeak?
[2007-09-07 12:03:37] DaveFaught: it would avoid the numeric problems
[2007-09-07 12:04:37] Peter: is there a link to the babel project in  
squeak?
[2007-09-07 12:04:49] Forum Host: A user has left
[2007-09-07 12:04:55] DaveFaught: how about LittleSmalltalk
[2007-09-07 12:05:05] DaveFaught: ha ha ha
[2007-09-07 12:05:07] Forum Host: andreas has arrived
[2007-09-07 12:05:23] Mark: Hi Andreas!
[2007-09-07 12:07:20] DaveFaught: i do have the code at least
[2007-09-07 12:07:39] DaveFaught: that too
[2007-09-07 12:08:51] Josh: Re: GPU still... we can however use the  
GPU to do useful work outside the island.  We currently have small  
thumbnail textures in the island that refer to hi-res textures off-
island, we could have them refer to procedural textures generated on  
the GPU.  Same goes for meshes.
[2007-09-07 12:10:51] DaveFaught: Yes, and I think the UMN skeletal  
animation has the machanism to replicate the GLSL shader source
[2007-09-07 12:12:44] DaveFaught: Lua appears to heavily depend on  
outside libraries which would introduce more possibilites of problems
[2007-09-07 12:14:12] Josh: In the last version I looked at, the  
skeletal animation code assumed that the shader source resides in  
well-known files.
[2007-09-07 12:14:32] Forum Host: Philip has arrived
[2007-09-07 12:14:37] Peter: we've moved it into methods
[2007-09-07 12:14:40] John Dougan: That is pretty usuall in the  
system....voice is so limited.
[2007-09-07 12:15:00] Peter: I didn't want to have to distribute the  
source files
[2007-09-07 12:15:14] Peter: hi phillip
[2007-09-07 12:15:26] Philip: Greetings all!
[2007-09-07 12:15:33] DaveFaught: i usually have about 8 windows  
going at work, but not chats
[2007-09-07 12:19:04] DaveFaught: i don't think you are going to  
convince anyone to rewrite basic math routines for their language  
when it only benefits Croquet
[2007-09-07 12:19:26] Josh: Peter: that makes sense.
[2007-09-07 12:19:48] John Dougan: "they" have never wanted that.
[2007-09-07 12:19:54] DaveFaught: why does this only appear as a  
problem in Croquet
[2007-09-07 12:20:22] John Dougan: Look at the history of floating  
point, particulatly by Cray
[2007-09-07 12:20:55] John Dougan: Accuracy and repeatability was  
sacrificed for speed.
[2007-09-07 12:21:24] DaveFaught: so Mac users think that Pi is an  
even number?
[2007-09-07 12:21:44] Mark: if it is tuesday , yes
[2007-09-07 12:21:59] Peter: it isn't?
[2007-09-07 12:26:02] Josh: David F: because of the replicated  
computation... other systems don't do it.
[2007-09-07 12:27:23] Philip: I have a 29 seconds lag right now... so  
I'll write my question here too: any news re discussions between  
Croquet Consortium and Qwaq and other parties re making a particular  
browser the default.
[2007-09-07 12:27:25] John Dougan: Does anybody have a list of the  
places where you'd have to interface/hook
  into to integrate a scripting language into Croquet?
[2007-09-07 12:27:35] DaveFaught: i guess i don't understand how  
getting different results on different machines is okay for most  
languages
[2007-09-07 12:29:27] John Dougan: It has to do with the problem  
you're trying to solve. If it's 1980 and I'm doing fluid dynamics  
simulations, I don't care about cross platform...I might care about  
accuracy, I will care about speed.
[2007-09-07 12:29:29] andreas: In most cases the differences are  
marginal and within epsilon of the "right" result
[2007-09-07 12:30:15] John Dougan: Exactly, andreas.
[2007-09-07 12:31:27] John Dougan: Is there gige to be a log to disk  
facility for the text chat in Qwaq Forums?
[2007-09-07 12:31:36] John Dougan: s/gige/going/
[2007-09-07 12:32:05] DaveFaught: so then differences might be  
minimized by something analogous to periodic checkpoints
[2007-09-07 12:32:53] John Dougan: If you have an "authoratative"  
sorce and not too much data to synchronize.   Not good in a P2P system.
[2007-09-07 12:33:39] DaveFaught: and voice to text
[2007-09-07 12:35:21] John Dougan: Jush?
[2007-09-07 12:35:25] Forum Host: The Dude has left
[2007-09-07 12:35:30] Forum Host: andreas has left
[2007-09-07 12:35:32] Forum Host: Peter has left
[2007-09-07 12:35:32] Forum Host: Josh has left
[2007-09-07 12:35:41] Forum Host: WilfPinfold has left
[2007-09-07 12:35:46] Forum Host: JustinGibbs has left
[2007-09-07 12:36:44] Forum Host: DaveFaught has left