we would like to integrate network

HI guys

integrate fast and often they said so we would like to try with 3.9
So do you have a version of network that you can push at us....

Stef

Nope - nothing yet. My apologies for not pushing the team and/or not
doing more work, but I'm in the middle of moving houses, officially
homeless now and therefore staying at my mother's place. I wouldn't be
a good guest if I would work every night, and regular work is already
eating up more time than I would like...

So I fear that until I move into the new place (housewarming 8 april,
everyone's invited :-)) I will be of little use w.r.t. pushing the I/O
team to clean up Mantis...

On 2/3/06, stéphane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
> integrate fast and often they said so we would like to try with 3.9
> So do you have a version of network that you can push at us....

Hi cees

marcus told me that lot of elements were resolved or closed on network
so we thought that the network team had some items for us.

Stef

On 3 févr. 06, at 11:42, Cees De Groot wrote:

> Nope - nothing yet. My apologies for not pushing the team and/or not
> doing more work, but I'm in the middle of moving houses, officially
> homeless now and therefore staying at my mother's place. I wouldn't be
> a good guest if I would work every night, and regular work is already
> eating up more time than I would like...

I'm moving in June 2006 :) and continously before :) Welcome to the  
club.

>
> So I fear that until I move into the new place (housewarming 8 april,
> everyone's invited :-)) I will be of little use w.r.t. pushing the I/O
> team to clean up Mantis...
>
> On 2/3/06, stéphane ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> integrate fast and often they said so we would like to try with 3.9
>> So do you have a version of network that you can push at us....
>

Hi Stephane!

I was away during the weekend, sorry for not replying earlier.

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?= <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi cees
>
> marcus told me that lot of elements were resolved or closed on network
> so we thought that the network team had some items for us.
>
> Stef

Well, IMHO the stuff at:

        http://source.squeakfoundation.org/network/

...are probably fine to merge, though Ken would have to answer regarding
the KLC-MCs, but I think those are fine too (if you read the notes on
each).

The only reason for me not having pushed this (having been the Network
team leader) is that I wanted to do a bit more and give it to you in one
bite. Now, Cees is the new combo team I/O leader so he would have to
give you the "ok" to push these if we should play by the book.



regards, Göran

ok let us know.
For me this is important that we go beta soon.

stef


On 6 févr. 06, at 10:26, [hidden email] wrote:

On 06.02.2006, at 10:26, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> The only reason for me not having pushed this (having been the Network
> team leader) is that I wanted to do a bit more and give it to you  
> in one
> bite. Now, Cees is the new combo team I/O leader so he would have to
> give you the "ok" to push these if we should play by the book.
>

The problem with that is that this means that even simple things don't
get integrated soon... I am a big fan of *very* fast integration.

The Teams model right now seems to be great for complex stuff, but
especially the small things are kind of slowed down, especially
if we adopt the "nobody touches it besides the maintainer" that a lot
of people argued for.


        Marcus

Hi Marcus!

Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 06.02.2006, at 10:26, [hidden email] wrote:
> > The only reason for me not having pushed this (having been the Network
> > team leader) is that I wanted to do a bit more and give it to you  
> > in one
> > bite. Now, Cees is the new combo team I/O leader so he would have to
> > give you the "ok" to push these if we should play by the book.
>
> The problem with that is that this means that even simple things don't
> get integrated soon... I am a big fan of *very* fast integration.

I am too - but a team must be able to share work within the team
*before* pushing it to the release team. Don't you agree?
Otherwise there is no team in practice. I wanted feedback on my fixes
from the other members - and I wanted to be able to put them together in
a single MC for integration. I think that the "overall speed" would be
faster - sure, small fixes will have a lead time to get in - but if we
look at number of fixes over time I firmly believe in the team model to
scale better.

And another important thing - when I wrote that code I felt much more
able to actually change stuff - since I am part of the official
maintainer team. Earlier I have never felt fully confident in changing
other people's code - this is a very important effect I think in order
to get Squeak "cleaner". Ownership enables people to actually dare to
throw out cruft.
 
> The Teams model right now seems to be great for complex stuff, but
> especially the small things are kind of slowed down, especially
> if we adopt the "nobody touches it besides the maintainer" that a lot
> of people argued for.

Mmmm, well, I am a bit "split" on this. I also favor very fast short
development models - but I think we need to try to work within the team
model with "ownership" in order to attract people to do that work. But
we can make it "as fast as possible" of course.

I am not sure if Cees has given green light for the MCs I pointed to -
but I assume he would unless he has missed this posting.

And IIRC the MCs I pointed to are fine enough to integrate.

regards, Göran

Hi Marcus and all!

Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Teams model right now seems to be great for complex stuff, but
> especially the small things are kind of slowed down, especially
> if we adopt the "nobody touches it besides the maintainer" that a lot
> of people argued for.

One idea is for each team (on a team by team basis) to offer "carte
blanche" to the release team to make fixes and modifications as long as
they also publish them in the team repository for "post approval".

How does that sound? If I were the I/O team leader :) then I would
gladly offer that to the current release team. So I think most teams
would be willing to do that.

regards, Göran

On 2/9/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am not sure if Cees has given green light for the MCs I pointed to -
> but I assume he would unless he has missed this posting.
>
I haven't, but I trust your judgement - I'm simply handicapped these
days, all the spare time I have (which is little) goes into the
formalities surrounding my new house and stuff like that.

My suggestion is that whatever you think is publishable gets shoved
into the inbox, goran.

On 2/9/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> One idea is for each team (on a team by team basis) to offer "carte
> blanche" to the release team to make fixes and modifications as long as
> they also publish them in the team repository for "post approval".
>
I don't think it's a good idea. First, it creates extra work for the
release team; second, it mandates that each team very clearly
communicates to the release team what its strategy for fixing stuff
is, and requires that the release team knows all these various
strategies and complies with them.

let us know when you have something for 3.9

Stef

On 9 févr. 06, at 12:15, [hidden email] wrote:

On 09.02.2006, at 14:03, Cees De Groot wrote:

It can be a mess easily, yes... so we will try to not do this for now.

      Marcus

On 10.02.2006, at 11:05, Marcus Denker wrote:
>> I don't think it's a good idea. First, it creates extra work for the
>> release team; second, it mandates that each team very clearly
>> communicates to the release team what its strategy for fixing stuff
>> is, and requires that the release team knows all these various
>> strategies and complies with them.
>>
>
> It can be a mess easily, yes... so we will try to not do this for now.

I just had a look at Networking... I will not inlcude this in 3.9 for  
now,
as there are lots of branches in the networking Project on  
source.squeafoundation.org,
and I don't even know which to take, most of them look like  
independend devlopment
threads starting from the one in the current 3.9, but there is not a  
single one containing
all changes.

So I will wait till we have a dedicated package to include.

I can only stress again that I personally think that we need to  
include any kind
of change *fast* to be able to test it and to get new reports /  
patches based on
the current state and not some code that is already 6 weeks old.

      Marcus

On 2/11/06, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I just had a look at Networking... I will not inlcude this in 3.9 for
> now, [...]

no need for you to look at the Networking repository - just wait for
stuff to show up in the inbox (or not ;-)).

Goran - i'll be off-line-ish at least for another 1-2 weeks, could you
throw something into the 3.9 team's direction?

Hi guys!

Cees De Groot <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2/11/06, Marcus Denker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I just had a look at Networking... I will not inlcude this in 3.9 for
> > now, [...]
>
> no need for you to look at the Networking repository - just wait for
> stuff to show up in the inbox (or not ;-)).
>
> Goran - i'll be off-line-ish at least for another 1-2 weeks, could you
> throw something into the 3.9 team's direction?

I will try to put a combined MC together later tonight.

regards, Göran